Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally? - page 17

I have an old friend from years ago who I now keep in touch with on Facebook. Her posts are fascinating in the amazing variety of conspiracy theories, some outrageous, some maybe partially true.... Read More

  1. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from hherrn
    Kooky-
    With all that this thread has wandered, you have been the most consistent in answering the OP's actual question:
    Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally?

    In the spirit of distinguishing anecdotal evidence from actual evidence, I will not claim that your responses answer the question definitively. But, you do certainly provide a data point.

    Just curious- do you have any sense of the irony of your response to this question?
    I don't know what you are trying to say, so please just say it clearly.

    Just an aside - I don't know if the original question can really be answered, at least, I am not aware of any studies that could be used to cite actual data that could scientifically tell us the answer. If anyone knows of any, please cite them.
  2. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from wtbcrna
    There is no criteria for the average citizen to get the flu vaccine, but for some reason most patients seem to not want to get the flu from their hcps. Most of those patients expect that their nurses/hcps will follow state and federal healthcare guidelines including getting the flu vaccine.
    I doubt most patients know there are GUIDElines about health care workers getting flu shots.

    I'll bet most doctors do not get them. No, I have no figures and you likely don't either. Just thinking out loud.
  3. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from wtbcrna
    Mandating that healthcare workers who take care of and work with vulnerable populations to also get their flu vaccine in order to protect said vulnerable population is a good moral choice, and if that healthcare worker does not want to get said vaccinations then they should seriously think about finding another career field that does not put them in regular contact with vulnerable populations.
    A lot of personnel who never get near patients are now forced to get flu shots. Don't tell me that is not political on some level.
  4. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    It's interesting that public health is not at stake apparently when it comes to HIV or even full-blown AIDS.
    Are you so sure of that? HIV-Specific Criminal Laws | Law | Policy and Law | HIV/AIDS | CDC

    https://www.hivlawandpolicy.org/site...%202017%29.pdf
  5. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    I don't know what you are trying to say, so please just say it clearly.

    Just an aside - I don't know if the original question can really be answered, at least, I am not aware of any studies that could be used to cite actual data that could scientifically tell us the answer. If anyone knows of any, please cite them.
    I already did.
  6. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from wtbcrna
    This is a blanket cop out from every conspiracy theorist/antivaccine person there is. You don't agree with the evidence so you believe it isn't accurate. It doesn't matter that there is over 200 years of successful vaccine use.
    What random straw man arguments about my religious views did I throw out?

    I do not necessarily believe it or not believe it. I am not sure. I am on the fence. Do you understand? I am not sure. I am not sure. I am not sure. I am not sure.

    Answer the question you ignored before. Don't pretend you don't see it now. Answer it. What random straw man argument about my religious views did I throw out?
  7. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    A lot of personnel who never get near patients are now forced to get flu shots. Don't tell me that is not political on some level.
    Just because you don't have direct contact with patients doesn't mean you aren't a danger. This is basic epidemiology.
    How Flu Spreads | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC
  8. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    What random straw man arguments about my religious views did I throw out?

    I do not necessarily believe it or not believe it. I am not sure. I am on the fence. Do you understand? I am not sure. I am not sure. I am not sure. I am not sure.

    Answer the question you ignored before. Don't pretend you don't see it now. Answer it. What random straw man argument about my religious views did I throw out?
    There are 17 pages. What question? Repeating yourself over and over doesn't help your argument.
  9. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from KatieMI
    You also see that the moon gets up in the sky every time after the sun goes down, as countless generation of humans did for the last 100000 years. It still doesn't mean that the moon comes up BECAUSE the sun goes down.

    That's absolutely your right to refuse any medical action, medication or procedure, or think that by questioning work of others you extoll your own intellectual value, so to say. But, if you choose to live in developed First World society (and, yes, it is YOUR CHOICE), it is not your right to do anything that can negatively affect others. Likewise, you can drink yourself into oblivion in your own house, but you cannot drive while drunk - not because it is dangerous for you, but because you can kill someone else. Refusing to vaccinate, leaving alone personal benefits, which can be significant but not decisive for some people concerned with "substances" being injected into them, endangers others - primarily, very young, very sick and very old. If such a person - a preemie baby or someone who took a gift of life from another person who died but left pieces of his or her life to prolong others' lives, - catches a prevenatble disease from a person who "chooses not to vaccinate", in my book it is equals knowingly and willingly performing actions which with high probability can cause great bodily harm or death. Just like driving drunk, throwing objects from a bridge to a highway or keeping a loaded gun in a place where it can be found by a child.

    I really do not understand why people inflict such emotional suffering upon themselves if they just do not satisfied with the fact that living in the First World society implies having significant amount of social responsibilities toward others. There are helluva lot of countries where nobody cares about you being vaccinated or not, and which ignore modern preventive medicine altogether. Many of them have pleasant climate, lower taxes, easy immigration laws and much less pressure to conform to certain social norms - aka "more freedom", if one chooses to name it like that.

    BTW, nasal smear test for flu costs about $50 usually covered by insurance, doesn't require blood draw and can be done in pretty much any Urgent Care. Next time, when your family "gets flu" at least 3 weeks after shot, do it to make sure that it was flu - it which case, there's Tamiflu option. 3 weeks is the time for IgG synthesis to get to the max.
    I've always wanted to retire to a warmer climate.

    Sadly, these countries likely have other problems. And there is nothing in the world so grand as being a US citizen. God (yes GOD) bless America.
  10. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    I doubt most patients know there are GUIDElines about health care workers getting flu shots.

    I'll bet most doctors do not get them. No, I have no figures and you likely don't either. Just thinking out loud.
    I'll bet you're wrong. In 2012 physicians through one survey had over 85% annual influenza vaccine rates. Physicians were actually one of the highest HCPs by percentage to get the flu vaccine.
    Health Care Personnel Flu Vaccination, Internet Panel Survey, United States, November 212 | FluVaxView | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC
  11. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    What random straw man arguments about my religious views did I throw out?

    I do not necessarily believe it or not believe it. I am not sure. I am on the fence. Do you understand? I am not sure. I am not sure. I am not sure. I am not sure.

    Answer the question you ignored before. Don't pretend you don't see it now. Answer it. What random straw man argument about my religious views did I throw out?
    Did I post something about religion, because I certainly don't remember it?.
  12. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from Jen-Elizabeth
    Of course I'm allowed to say the word! I say it a lot, to be honest, and have lessons built around it. Your second question makes an assumption about comprehensive sex education when it comes to abstinence. Comprehensive sex education includes abstinence teaching. Abstinence is the healthiest choice a middle or high school student can make (the grade levels I teach). I've mentioned this in another thread, but comprehensive sex education teaching and abstinence teaching do want the same thing ultimately: children to be healthy and they both teach that abstinence is the healthiest option for them.

    Since you asked, I define abstinence is my class as voluntarily choosing not to engage in any sexual behavior (such as vaginal, anal, and oral intercourse) that could result in a pregnancy or STI. But you mention all sexual contact - some folks believe kissing is sexual contact. I also acknowledge this as again, abstinence will mean different things to different people.

    It is not my place to tell someone when they should or should not have sex and what is right or wrong. I do, however, present students with questions they can ask themselves when they are thinking about having sex to see if they feel fully ready for any consequences (negative or positive) that can occur after having sex.

    I use terms "healthy" and "unhealthy" when I teach sex education. Right and wrong are value words and my personal values have no place in a sex education classroom.

    But I'm getting off-topic on vaccines. I do mention the HPV vaccine when teaching about STIs because it relevant. But again, I do not voice my opinion for or against it, just the facts about it. But a majority of the students I teach have voiced that they have already started or finished getting the HPV vaccine.
    Call me old fashioned. But I'm not sure kids need to know how to spell cunnilingus or how to put a condom on a fake penis.

    Duggars, right on. (not the lack of contraception; to each his own, but that's not what I'm applauding about them)

    Kissing, being alone on dates, even holding hands - it all just leads to temptation that kids don't need.

    I wonder if parents are aware that Sex Ed is no longer about just anatomy, a woman's menstrual cycle, and wet dreams.

    I do think parents need to be telling kids about values and morality in relation to sexuality/sex.
  13. by   wtbcrna
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Call me old fashioned. But I'm not sure kids need to know how to spell cunnilingus or how to put a condom on a fake penis.

    Duggars, right on. (not the lack of contraception; to each his own, but that's not what I'm applauding about them)

    Kissing, being alone on dates, even holding hands - it all just leads to temptation that kids don't need.

    I wonder if parents are aware that Sex Ed is no longer about just anatomy, a woman's menstrual cycle, and wet dreams.

    I do think parents need to be telling kids about values and morality in relation to sexuality/sex.
    Sex education should reflect the realities of our society not what we would wish them to be, and as I have already posted links to abstinence only education has shown to increase teenage pregnancy and STI rates.

    Adolescent Sexual and Reproductive Health in the United States | Guttmacher Institute
    Last edit by wtbcrna on Oct 28, '17

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