Regarding paramedics in ER..why are they paid so terribly ? - page 2

Tell me about their education requirements, etc.I know the pay is terrible (at least around here) and they work so hard and are responsible for SO much. I don't understand why the pay discrepancy ?... Read More

  1. by   jwk
    Quote from Medic173
    ERs are opening their eyes and letting Medics do everything that the Nurses do. (Like in the ER I work in). Are ER just Hired Paramedic Physician Extenders to work with the doctors to see Patients. They are going to see Pts, write orders, review results, suture, LPs and Rx Scripts to name a few things. They are going to replace the PA and NP we have now. Wont that suck that the RNs will have to take orders from the Medics. Boy how times are changing. I just found out today that I got this job. I cant wait to see the faces on the RNs. We are going to be starting at $50 hr.
    Your posts are such a crock on so many different levels it's hard to know where to begin.

    Paramedics are NOT physician extenders the same way that PA's, RN's, and NP's are.

    Paramedics in ANY state CANNOT write orders, nor can an RN or other medical professional follow those orders.

    LP's as in lumbar punctures? Not legal for a paramedic in any state. Same for suturing.

    Writing prescriptions? Laughable. Also not legal in ANY state.

    While paramedics are excellent in their particular realm, they are not a replacement for RN's, NP's and PA's in an ER. And for the life of me, I can't figure out why they would be paid the same, much less more. Very few paramedics have a degree in their field. ALL RN's, NP's, and PA's do, most of them bachelor's degrees, and many with a masters.

    All it will take is one person to file a complaint with your governing state board - you'll be lucky not to land in jail for practicing medicine without a license. You better hide your paramedic license, because more than likely, that will be revoked as well. You are so far outside your scope of practice - that is IF you are actually doing all these things, which I really doubt.
  2. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Medic173
    ERs are opening their eyes and letting Medics do everything that the Nurses do. (Like in the ER I work in). Are ER just Hired Paramedic Physician Extenders to work with the doctors to see Patients. They are going to see Pts, write orders, review results, suture, LPs and Rx Scripts to name a few things. They are going to replace the PA and NP we have now. Wont that suck that the RNs will have to take orders from the Medics. Boy how times are changing. I just found out today that I got this job. I cant wait to see the faces on the RNs. We are going to be starting at $50 hr.
    As I said in an earlier post, it's basic supply and demand. No hospital is going to pay a paramedic that much to do that much. Why? If they actually had a job with that much responsibility, most paramedics, who thrive on that kind of stuff, would line up around the corner for that job, no matter how little they were being paid.

    And because the hospital could fill such a fictional position with any number of candidates, you can be sure that the pay for such a job would be commensurate, not with the responsibility, but with the ease with which it could be filled and retained.

    The wonderful thing about posting on a board is that you can say whatever you want, regardless the facts.

    But have fun w/ that attitude; it'll get you far.

    (might I add that the reason why NPs and PAs DO get paid that kind of money is because most states have rules about the training that allows for that kind of work. Attaining that training is what makes you valuable in the supply and demand curve. I don't know of a single state that would allow a paramedic to take the kinds of responsibilities that you mention. For that matter, I don't know a single state that would allow a non-Advance Practice nurse to take on those responsibilities.)

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
    Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Sep 20, '05
  3. by   teeituptom
    Quote from Medic173
    ERs are opening their eyes and letting Medics do everything that the Nurses do. (Like in the ER I work in). Are ER just Hired Paramedic Physician Extenders to work with the doctors to see Patients. They are going to see Pts, write orders, review results, suture, LPs and Rx Scripts to name a few things. They are going to replace the PA and NP we have now. Wont that suck that the RNs will have to take orders from the Medics. Boy how times are changing. I just found out today that I got this job. I cant wait to see the faces on the RNs. We are going to be starting at $50 hr.

    Somehow I cant see this happening in my lifetime, and probably not yours. And you need to come down off your high horse youngster
  4. by   Jbert
    Quote from Medic173
    In the ER I work at as a Medic we are paid off of the same Pay Scale as the Nurses. We have the same job desription, and carry our own license so they pay us exactly the same as them. I get paid the same being a 8 yr Medic as a 8 yr Nurse. It is roughly in the $30 hour range before shift diffs.
    Where do you live and/or work where you carry your own license vs.a certificate as a medic?
  5. by   jwk
    Notice how Medic173 has disappeared when confronted with facts.
  6. by   taidan
    I just want all the nurses to realise what we are not all as abrasive and arrogant as medic 173. There are people like him in all health care fields. I agree with some of the other posters. In md paramedics get a licsense and are now required to get an AA. THe training involved in both is vastly different and as said before hard to compare.
  7. by   rn29306
    Quote from taidan
    I just want all the nurses to realise what we are not all as abrasive and arrogant as medic 173. There are people like him in all health care fields. I agree with some of the other posters. In md paramedics get a licsense and are now required to get an AA. THe training involved in both is vastly different and as said before hard to compare.

    No sweat taidan. And nurses as a whole usually aren't bad either. Exceptions are certainly on both sides and we both unfortunately run into these people on a daily basis. I worked in ER as a tech during my senior year of nursing along side emts. We all had the same scope, in fact, it was a requirement to be a tech there you had to be either a nursing student or in emt school or be an emt. Long story short, I got to see alot of the EMS guys and admired them for what they do with so little pay. Went to Atlanta and worked as a ICU, ED, PACU RN for 2 years or so and found a wonderful EMS company, very advanced I thought for EMTs and Paramedics. I started taking my req classes from this company's in-house teaching facility as it was very informative to see the material (ACLS, PALS) from the EMS standpoint. I went further and obtained TNCC from them, then also CCEMT-P in conjunction with MCG in Augusta. Then the fun begins. They know me as a nurse that is tired of the hospital and get along great with them as a company. This company forms a CCT with a brand spanking new approx 400K International truck with every drug except the clot-busters on board, DataScope IABP and the whole nine yards. Staffing was EMT vech operator, critical care paramedic (they had standards to meet for this) and an ICU RN. Working with EMS and quality paramedics really opened my eyes. We did transports and 911 calls. Medics had lead on 911 and me on hospital calls. Those guys were certainly amazing at what they knew about pre-hospital care. There were days when I thought we should tube someone in the driveway and we loaded pt up with constant nebs and theophylline and had them on NC at 2L by time of ED arrival.

    Basis of this long-winded story is that a quality paramed is worth his or her weight in gold in the prehospital setting. Flip side is that a lazy one might as well not even bother getting up when the radio alarms because they either don't care or actually do harm (either doing TOO much or not enough for said pt). Likewise with nurses in the hospital. Either your golden or you really suction.......

    I think both sides for the majority respect each other's respective fields.
  8. by   Esme12
    Quote from Medic173
    ERs are opening their eyes and letting Medics do everything that the Nurses do. (Like in the ER I work in). Are ER just Hired Paramedic Physician Extenders to work with the doctors to see Patients. They are going to see Pts, write orders, review results, suture, LPs and Rx Scripts to name a few things. They are going to replace the PA and NP we have now. Wont that suck that the RNs will have to take orders from the Medics. Boy how times are changing. I just found out today that I got this job. I cant wait to see the faces on the RNs. We are going to be starting at $50 hr.
    Hey 173,If what you are doing is so great why are you in nursing school????????? I do make 50.00 bucks an hour but I sure don't have you bad attitude!!!! Paramedics do not carry a liscense they are not a PA Where in heavens name do you get the Hallucinogen that you are taking?? I am a nurse then I became a paramedic for trauma flight they are completley different specialties. But if you are in such distain of nurses why are you in nurses school having delusions of grandure(sp?)lost in boston
  9. by   Medic173
    Oh, dont worry I havent gone far away. To answer some questions. Yes in most states Medics are Licensed. The states that are still certified will be switching in the near futrue, check state leg. websites for details. And yes Medics are a form of Physician Extenders and operate under the Physician in all aspects of Patient care. (This is how we can give Meds, intubate, needle chests, surgical airways, chest tubes and needle the paricardial sac.) And that is the reason they can replace a NP or PA, They also operate under the Physician. In the ER where I work the have started the Physician Extender Paramedics to see Pts, order labs, rad, suture, I&D, LPs order meds, review results, consult with oncall MD and Rx scripts under the MD license. The MDs have agreed and approved this and it was started. That is why if a Medic ever causes an error in the field or in house, it will be the MD the he was working under that will be on the stand with him. Oh, and I have put off Nursing School to pursue this position. I will pursue the degree again only to advance my other job in Flight Medicine. It doesnt matter if you think I am full of Sh*t or not, it is very humerous to know that it has gotten so many of the RN's in an up roar. It has done the same in our ER but after the first couple weeks they realized that if I order something it is coming from the MD through me.
  10. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Medic173
    Oh, dont worry I havent gone far away. To answer some questions. Yes in most states Medics are Licensed. The states that are still certified will be switching in the near futrue, check state leg. websites for details. And yes Medics are a form of Physician Extenders and operate under the Physician in all aspects of Patient care. (This is how we can give Meds, intubate, needle chests, surgical airways, chest tubes and needle the paricardial sac.) And that is the reason they can replace a NP or PA, They also operate under the Physician. In the ER where I work the have started the Physician Extender Paramedics to see Pts, order labs, rad, suture, I&D, LPs order meds, review results, consult with oncall MD and Rx scripts under the MD license. The MDs have agreed and approved this and it was started. That is why if a Medic ever causes an error in the field or in house, it will be the MD the he was working under that will be on the stand with him. Oh, and I have put off Nursing School to pursue this position. I will pursue the degree again only to advance my other job in Flight Medicine. It doesnt matter if you think I am full of Sh*t or not, it is very humerous to know that it has gotten so many of the RN's in an up roar. It has done the same in our ER but after the first couple weeks they realized that if I order something it is coming from the MD through me.
    Easy enough to verify the laws in your State: what State was that?

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  11. by   Medic173
    I dont live in Tx like you, but the Medics there are Licensed too.

    http://info.sos.state.tx.us/pls/pub/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tl oc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=25&pt=1&ch=157&rl=40

    Point Proven!!
  12. by   ZASHAGALKA
    Quote from Medic173
    I dont live in Tx like you, but the Medics there are Licensed too.

    Point Proven!!
    I don't care about your license status but your scope of practice. Your State's BON will list things that only belong to NP and your State's Health Code will specifically state what is limited to MDs and PAs.

    And the part of the health code that covers paramedics will clearly spell out a scope of practice.

    So you haven't proven anything except an unwillingness to verify your claims.

    So, what State is this wonderfully progressive ER of yours in?

    ~faith,
    Timothy.
  13. by   Medic173
    Before you post on claims that you have no proof on, the scope of a Paramedic is determined by the MD, that they are working under. This is true in all 50 states. Why do you think we can do more than an RN in the house and field, because your license doesnt protect you, like ours and the MD we work under. Are we clear. ARE WE CLEAR??

    Thanks

    The End

close