DNP vs MD - page 6

What is the difference between DNP and MD? How long does it take to become a DNP if you already have BSN degree? I thought nurses had problems with docs, but one day I visited the student doctor... Read More

  1. Visit  DragonNP profile page
    0
    The DNP degree needs to be clarified. Its initial intent was for clinical practice, but I can't see the utility of having administrators without any premise for clinical practice (which is far too often the case with nursing) be allotted a clinical degree, unless it is clearly delineated.
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  3. Visit  Terpole profile page
    0
    Quote from wtbcrna
    The cost argument does not work, because APNs are still paying for the bulk of their education whereas physicians do not. APNs will always be the cheapest of the two providers as far as the general public is concerned. Physicians may pay for a large part of their medical school, even that is often highly subsidized, but residency is mostly paid for by CMS. The cost to educate an anesthesiologist is around 1mil+ with little of that coming from the actual physician. APNs are virtual cash cows to universities and is one of the reasons that so many universities are opting to open and/or expand APN programs.
    Also, the COA has proposed that all CRNA move to a minimum of a 36month program. That proposal if and when it does happen will be before the DNP/DNAP requirement date. IMO 24month CRNA programs will not last. There is too much information now for a 24 month CRNA program to produce high quality independent CRNA graduates that have the knowledge to practice independently and utilize/understand new research.
    I just don't see the reasoning of this. But I'm by no means criticizing this position.

    I just think an increased load of education without quantifiable, measurable gains for the student makes education more prohibitive.
  4. Visit  SycamoreGuy profile page
    1
    Quote from DragonNP
    The DNP degree needs to be clarified. Its initial intent was for clinical practice, but I can't see the utility of having administrators without any premise for clinical practice (which is far too often the case with nursing) be allotted a clinical degree, unless it is clearly delineated.
    The DNP is designed to give clinicians the tools needed to evaluate the most recent research and implement it in their practice. You can argue about whether or not that is worth while but that is really what the DNP is designed for.
    wtbcrna likes this.
  5. Visit  elkpark profile page
    0
    Quote from SycamoreGuy
    The DNP is designed to give clinicians the tools needed to evaluate the most recent research and implement it in their practice. You can argue about whether or not that is worth while but that is really what the DNP is designed for.
    Guess what? When I was in my MSN program 20 years ago, that's exactly what I was told my MSN was designed to do. That, and prepare me for the advanced practice role I was pursuing.
  6. Visit  nomadcrna profile page
    3
    This is absolutely not true. Now if you replace DNP with PhD, you would be correct.

    A DNP is a practice doctorate.
    A PhD is a teaching/research doctorate.

    Quote from Fribblet
    A person who has attained a DNP is a nurse with an advanced degree who focuses on teaching and research.

    And MD is a person with a professional degree who is licensed to diagnose and treat patients with medical needs.

    A DNP will not make you a MD.
    carolinapooh, elkpark, and wtbcrna like this.
  7. Visit  SycamoreGuy profile page
    0
    Quote from elkpark
    Guess what? When I was in my MSN program 20 years ago, that's exactly what I was told my MSN was designed to do. That, and prepare me for the advanced practice role I was pursuing.
    Ahhh! Degree creep at its finest!
  8. Visit  wtbcrna profile page
    1
    Yeah, instead evolving with times maybe we should go back to the days where one of the first anesthesia courses was 3 weeks long and taught on the back porch of a hospital. We don't need degrees or to even be certified. We are just dumb old nurses anyways, right? We shouldn't seek to improve our profession. This way has worked in the past so we don't need to change anything. Who needs leaders in EBP anyways?...

    Sarcasm intended.
    carolinapooh likes this.
  9. Visit  Bringonthenight profile page
    0
    Quote from wtbcrna
    Yeah, instead evolving with times maybe we should go back to the days where one of the first anesthesia courses was 3 weeks long and taught on the back porch of a hospital. We don't need degrees or to even be certified. We are just dumb old nurses anyways, right? We shouldn't seek to improve our profession. This way has worked in the past so we don't need to change anything. Who needs leaders in EBP anyways?....
    Exactly
  10. Visit  SycamoreGuy profile page
    0
    I'm actually still torn between the "degree creep" and "leaders in EBP" arguments. I can see both sides. I think the best outcome would be to keep the MSN as the entry to practice degree and offer the DNP for those who want it. I'd really hate the DNP become required.
  11. Visit  wtbcrna profile page
    0
    Quote from SycamoreGuy
    I'm actually still torn between the "degree creep" and "leaders in EBP" arguments. I can see both sides. I think the best outcome would be to keep the MSN as the entry to practice degree and offer the DNP for those who want it. I'd really hate the DNP become required.
    That is already being done. CRNAs are the only APN group that has fully adopted the clinical doctorate right now, and that requirement doesn't even go into effect until 2025. All other APNs have no such requirement and can continue to get an MSN to gain entry into practice.
  12. Visit  carolinapooh profile page
    1
    Quote from wtbcrna
    Yeah, instead evolving with times maybe we should go back to the days where one of the first anesthesia courses was 3 weeks long and taught on the back porch of a hospital. We don't need degrees or to even be certified. We are just dumb old nurses anyways, right? We shouldn't seek to improve our profession. This way has worked in the past so we don't need to change anything. Who needs leaders in EBP anyways?...

    Sarcasm intended.
    The irony is PHYSICIANS used to learn the same way...
    SycamoreGuy likes this.
  13. Visit  NathanMarcy profile page
    1
    That's funny. Paramedics start getting bachelor's degrees and asking for jobs in ERs and BSN CENs lose thier **** about it but NPs start getting clinical doctorates and it's all good.

    Note: I'm working on a DNP, so I certainly support the idea. Just seems a little disengenous when you look at how nursing treats allied health.
    QuietRiot likes this.
  14. Visit  wtbcrna profile page
    0
    Quote from NathanMarcy
    That's funny. Paramedics start getting bachelor's degrees and asking for jobs in ERs and BSN CENs lose thier **** about it but NPs start getting clinical doctorates and it's all good.

    Note: I'm working on a DNP, so I certainly support the idea. Just seems a little disengenous when you look at how nursing treats allied health.
    I am not sure how that is even applicable to this discussion.
    A DNP is continuation of education, and it gives absolutely no further clinical change of authority or ability to do anything that outside of what any other APN could already do prior to the advent of the DNP.

    A paramedic getting their BSN in emergency services, and then expecting to take that degree to work inside the hospital ER is lateral move that isn't well covered in their education, nor is it allowed in many hospitals beyond the basic ER tech level, and the majority of care inside the ER is more focused on acute care not actual emergency care furthering the cognitive distance from the education that paramedics receive.


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