DNP vs MD - page 6

by healthstar

47,214 Views | 94 Comments

What is the difference between DNP and MD? How long does it take to become a DNP if you already have BSN degree? I thought nurses had problems with docs, but one day I visited the student doctor website and I was surprised to see... Read More


  1. 0
    Quote from ScottE
    Not exactly, the DNP is a professional degree along the same lines as the MD. The role of the DNP prepared nurse hasn't yet been clearly defined it is rather new.

    The PhD in nursing focuses research.

    how can you say is a professional degree along the same way as an MD but then you say the role for the DNP has not been clearly define? How can you say something looks like another thing when you dont even know how your thing looks???
  2. 0
    Quote from healthstar
    So many medical students and doctors are threatened by DNP program...it's not like nurses are taking their degrees away.

    just as nurses dont like medical assistants to be called nurses around the office. The same exact thing. Is human nature to defend your own.
  3. 0
    What bothers me is that alot of DNP's will say that they can do everything a physician can. That their training allows them to be just a qualified as say a family doc. I have a serious problem with this, seeings that in my medical training i had zero online classes (love this one!!!), four years of hell in medical school, and at least three years of residency. How can any DNP say that they have seen what i have or are more qualified coming out of school when most of their doctorate training is online based. So far i have had zero online patients! i think mid levels have their place and are a valuable asset in the health care model, but the fact they are trying to say they are something they are not is kind of sad. if you want so bad to be a physician go to medical school!
  4. 1
    Quote from austin1206
    What bothers me is that alot of DNP's will say that they can do everything a physician can. That their training allows them to be just a qualified as say a family doc. I have a serious problem with this, seeings that in my medical training i had zero online classes (love this one!!!), four years of hell in medical school, and at least three years of residency. How can any DNP say that they have seen what i have or are more qualified coming out of school when most of their doctorate training is online based. So far i have had zero online patients! i think mid levels have their place and are a valuable asset in the health care model, but the fact they are trying to say they are something they are not is kind of sad. if you want so bad to be a physician go to medical school!

    People say all sorts of crazy stuff. That doesn't make it so.
    IndiCRNA likes this.
  5. 0
    Quote from mige
    how can you say is a professional degree along the same way as an MD but then you say the role for the DNP has not been clearly define? How can you say something looks like another thing when you dont even know how your thing looks???
    I was comparing DNP to PhD in Nursing not DNP to MD.

    DNP is to PhD in Nursing as MD is to MD/PhD

    DNP has a clinical focus on nursing practice. PhD in Nursing has a research focus on nursing.

    MD has a clinical focus on Medicine. MD/PhD creates expert researchers in Medicine.

    They aren't at all the same but both have a similar focus within their respective fields. That was the point I was trying to make.
  6. 0
    @ScottE

    I've read your posts on this topic and I have to say... well said!

    I take exception to one statement I read and that is that DNP programs are 3 semesters beyond a graduate degree - I'm in the Duke DNP program and it is 2 years plus.
  7. 0
    The DNP was not created with the intent to make nurses MD's. People you are missing the point!The medical model has been for years the gold standard for providing medical care to humans.Nursing provides caring from an entirely different perspective, the nursing model.The educational preperation of nurses encompasses many subjects related to human beings, and attempts to understand the health and wellness of human beings in their environment.The problem with mist people having this discussion is that you all are products of the medical model, you have been convinced that MD's are superior than RN's and so you fight this battle to identify and justify yourself in this medical model world.Nurses are always showing off how much medical knowledge they have, yet they are unable to define exactly what it is nursing is. If nursing is simply a function of supporting the medical model, well than we should all be seeking education from the medical model. But we do not, we are educated in A nursing model.The idea that doctoral prepared nurses want to compete with MD's is ubsurd.We have our role, they have theirs, and we work together.Advanced practicing nurses, have more training in the academic setting to prepare them to function in treating patients who are ill or who are seeking screenings. Using the science of the human body but the application is by way of the nursing model.The future if the DNP. The necessity of it now, is a multifaceted conversation and to simply pin it as a MD - APRN debate is incorrect.There is a financial push from healthcare and society to have more APRN's to provide care in the healthcare arena. We have a national/global shortage of practitioners. NP's can and do function to treat primary and acute care , and their outcomes are evidenced as being that of quality.Another aspect of the DNP is the necessity for nursing to identify itself to other academic disciplines, to the world and to itself.Nursing is the most interesting discipline, I encourage all those interested in advance practice to pursue the DNP. If you really want to be an MD then go for it. But if you love nursing, if nursing is in line with who you are as a human being, thenDevelop this aspect of yourself and your practice. You will not regret it.And for anyone concerned about costs if school, keep Ur eyes open to scholarships and grants for all healthcare, NP and MD included, there is a dire need for primary care, and with the new healthcare act you will see more ands more financial assistance available to aid in covering the cost of education.I am so excited to be a part of thus growth and developing healthcare!
  8. 0
    Quote from mige
    And regarding the point of NP's satisfaction between patient is higher vs physicians is interesting. How much time does a NP has to see each patient? what is their patient load per day? I remember in my 3rd year of Internal Medicine residency training my clinic director increase our time to see each patient from 20 minutes to 30 minutes as precepting with the attending will take off 5-7 minutes from that total time. And it was funny to see that my patients evaluations were improving, but only in the area of "time allowance/time with physician". It seems that because I was with my patients for 3-5 more minutes per encounter they thought i was doing more and/or they were happier even though I was not changing their medical plan when I saw them for 30 minute time slot vs the 20 minute time slot.

    there has been studies that show that even a hug/more contact with patient (no sexual harrasment kind of thing) between a patient and a healthcare professional has improve patient/professional relationship.

    With all respect I disagree with you about the need for extra time with the patient to connect with them.I had the experience at first hand. I chose NP for my kids when they were born and for 2-3 years it was Ok. Then I started nursing school and one day as I was practicing skills with my kids I heard different sound with my older sons heart compare to my other kids! I automatically made an appointment with one of the Dr.'s at the hospital and my suspicions became true and the Dr. said I hear a murmur in your son's heart, and it is also in his report, did you not know before? The point is that the NP was able to detect but never communicated with us. Now I have a Dr. for my kids and I am more happier. Having said this it is all about how you approach, listening to the patient and making the little time you have with them more valuable, instead of telling patients do this and do that which I have seen done by many Doctors as well as PNs!
    Also, people argue who is more knowledgeable and patient safety. During one of my clinical me and another student were to go with the Dr.s while they performed ECT, there was also PA student who was in her finale year as she said! and one of the 2 Docs asked questions the PA student as he was doing it, the Student could not answer very simple questions that We ADN students have answered.The Dr. Have asked what do you called when patient have persistent seizures? She could not answer but we answered.Then he asked about the time to start treating patient with status Epilepticus and SHE SAID 30 MINTS! That was scary. My point is Education is not always the title of your degree,but it is how you be attention to your classes, and how you apply in real situation.
    I respect all who take their education serious and use it for a good cause whether it is a nurse, or a doctor.it all goes back to who you are as a person + how much you learned, which can be =good or bad.
    Last edit by Yasmom on Dec 25, '12
  9. 0
    Quote from austin1206
    What bothers me is that alot of DNP's will say that they can do everything a physician can. That their training allows them to be just a qualified as say a family doc. I have a serious problem with this, seeings that in my medical training i had zero online classes (love this one!!!), four years of hell in medical school, and at least three years of residency. How can any DNP say that they have seen what i have or are more qualified coming out of school when most of their doctorate training is online based. So far i have had zero online patients! i think mid levels have their place and are a valuable asset in the health care model, but the fact they are trying to say they are something they are not is kind of sad. if you want so bad to be a physician go to medical school!
    I laughed so hard reading "So far i have had zero online patients!"
    I agree online learning is not the same as practical in class learning. By the way DNP is not the same as physicians.There is doctors online if they can find trusting patients....lol
  10. 2
    Quote from ScottE
    The DNP is designed to replace the masters level degree as the entry level degree for advanced practice. Nurses are already practicing in advanced roles. I don't see how increasing the educational requirements to fulfill those roles is a bad thing.
    It can be a bad thing. We advanced pracactice nurses are supposed to be cost effective providers of health care. Among the things that makes us cost effective is the low cost of training an advanced practice nurse vs the cost of training a physican. Our much lower investment in education and time allowes us to provide health care for less.
    If the focus of the DNP was more clinical training to create providers with broader skills that allowed them to independantly care for more complex patients in a wider variety of settings I might go along with it. However it doesn't. The advanced practice nurses coming out of DNP programs are no better prepared clinicaly, and have the same scope as those coming out of masters programs.
    For example one CRNA program here in the midwest went from a 24 month MSN program to a 36 month DNP program. Not one single clinical hour or clinical based class was added to the program. The students actually do the DNP portion of their program first, then enter the exact same 24 month anesthesia program as they alwasy did. This adds a lot to the cost. If I had attended that program rather than a masters program like I did I would owe a lot more money, about $100K more plus I would not have made the $300K I am making the first year. So a DNP program would cost me $400K more than the masters program.
    SHGR and elkpark like this.


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