Nina Pham and/or Amber Vinson

Red Kryptonite · Oct 17, 2014

I can't bring myself to hold a person who knew she had a fever after exposure to an Ebola patient and then chose to put hundreds of other people at risk by traveling on a commercial airline, TWICE, in highest regard.

I don't care what some CDC phone monkey told her, she should have known better.

logank622 · Oct 17, 2014

I understand what you're saying, but... This is a rare disease. Very very few nurses in the US have ever encountered it. Sure, it's viral, standard precautions, etc., but we don't have a good grasp on its transmission (otherwise we would have proper PPE in place) or how it might affect our population. If the CDC itself didn't "know better", I can't expect a nurse to. We're supposed to get guidance from them. Calling them "phone monkeys" implies that they have less responsibility - that would be like saying "Patient X got an infection after she left the hospital because she wasn't paying attention. Sure, some bandage monkey RN didn't show her how to change her dressings correctly, but the patient is to blame because she should have known better".

There aren't any monkeys in health care - everyone has a responsibility to someone else. The CDC is responsible for determining how to prevent exposure and transmission of disease. When they tell an Ebola-exposed nurse with a fever that it's OK to travel, that's their failure, not hers.

SionainnRN · Oct 17, 2014

I can't bring myself to hold a person who knew she had a fever after exposure to an Ebola patient and then chose to put hundreds of other people at risk by traveling on a commercial airline, TWICE, in highest regard.
I don't care what some CDC phone monkey told her, she should have known better.

She didn't have a fever. A fever is 100.4 or greater, she had 99.5. That is not a fever. And if you can't trust the CDC who are we supposed to trust?

BSNbeauty, BSN, RN · Oct 17, 2014

I can't bring myself to hold a person who knew she had a fever after exposure to an Ebola patient and then chose to put hundreds of other people at risk by traveling on a commercial airline, TWICE, in highest regard.
I don't care what some CDC phone monkey told her, she should have known better.

It is so easy to judge her actions when you were not in her shoes isnt it?

I pray both nurses have a speedy recovery.

amoLucia · Oct 17, 2014

Prayers for the two.

And I truly understand the reasoning ' well, maybe everything is OK and I'm OK too".

Clear Morning · Oct 17, 2014

My heart goes out to them both. BUT, yes she had a temp of 99.6 when she got on the plane. Not a fever, but this is an elevated temperature. What was her temperature when she got off the plane? Temps can spike in minutes. With an elevated temperature and known exposure to Ebola, this nurse should not have flown, even if it was not a "fever" I don't care what the CDC says.

That said, I wish her the best and hope she recovers to the fullest. Hopefully we will not see additional new cases as a result of this incident.

Wheels28 · Oct 17, 2014

As someone who admires the nursing profession, I hate to see any nurse down, I hope they both recover fully.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Oct 17, 2014

Did Ms. Vinson make an error in judgment? Maybe...hindsight is 20/20. But on another thread on this very site, some were taken to task for listening to the news and not EBP/reputable sources like the CDC. Ms. Vinson was not running a fever and she checked with the CDC.

She's battling a life-threatening disease. Talk about kicking someone when she's down...is that necessary? If she did spread it on that plane, don't you think she'll be doing that to herself?

blondy2061h, MSN, RN · Oct 17, 2014

I can't bring myself to hold a person who knew she had a fever after exposure to an Ebola patient and then chose to put hundreds of other people at risk by traveling on a commercial airline, TWICE, in highest regard.
I don't care what some CDC phone monkey told her, she should have known better.

She was 99.5. It's forever been drilled into me that 100.5 is a fever and anything less really isn't. My body temperature is kind of volatile. Many things raise my body temp pretty significantly- exercise, stress, being warm. I'm not sure I would have even been phased enough to call the CDC, much less not trust their advice. Who knows what I would do if I were on Ebola watch, though.

amoLucia · Oct 17, 2014

She's battling a life-threatening disease. Talk about kicking someone when she's down...is that necessary? If she did spread it on that plane, don't you think she'll be doing that to herself?

I'm sure she's thinking that now.

We all need to support our fellow practitioners across all the disciplines for the risks that we don't really have any handle on.

allnurses Guide · Oct 17, 2014

She didn't have a fever. A fever is 100.4 or greater, she had 99.5. That is not a fever. And if you can't trust the CDC who are we supposed to trust?

I keep thinking, as a former ER nurse, that it depends on which kind of thermometer used as well. We did an experiment during a downtime in the ER where we took everyone's temp with the tympanic, the oral, and the forehead thermometers. (We decided NOT to try the rectal method even though we think it is the most accurate )

ALL were different . . . . :nurse:

There isn't much difference between 98.6 and 99.5 . . . . you can switch from one to another just by entering a warm room. And some folks baseline temp is higher than 98.6

I agree - let's not criticize the nurses. We should have a thread of support for them instead. There are plenty of other Ebola threads in which to criticize things . . .