16 years ago, a doctor published a study, and it made us all sick

[wtbcrna]

"After years of controversy and making parents mistrust vaccines, along with collecting $674,000 from lawyers who would benefit from suing vaccine makers, it was discovered he had made the whole thing up. The Lancet publicly apologized and reported that further investigation led to the discovery that he had fabricated everything.

In the intervening years, millions have been spent on studying this further to see if there was anything that could connect autism and vaccines. This is what they found."

16 years ago, a doctor published a study. It was completely made up, and it made us all sicker.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Actually, I felt that Dr. Carson had a chance to take a very strong position on the vaccine-autisim myth and instead made a very conservative statement on the topic.

[cracklingkraken, ASN, RN]

Actually, I felt that Dr. Carson had a chance to take a very strong position on the vaccine-autisim myth and instead made a very conservative statement on the topic.

I like Carson. He seems like a reasonable guy.

We were actually just talking about the vaccine-autism study in our OB/Peds class. I was happy to be able to say, "It was a lie!" Of course, apparently they all knew that already. I never thought there was anything to it, even when people said that there was a link. It's nice to know that it was actually untrue, so you can EDUCATE people.

[elkpark]

Actually, I felt that Dr. Carson had a chance to take a very strong position on the vaccine-autisim myth and instead made a very conservative statement on the topic.

Well, he is very conservative, so ...

[elkpark]

If he gets elected as President, I'm moving out of the country. He's going to start a war because of his uncensored mouth. It's amusing to us, but probably not for foreign diplomats.

Yes, I'm amazed at the number of people who don't appear to have any concerns about the idea of having a US president who just says whatever crazy thing pops into his head (and then trying to back away from his statements later when they backfire on him).

[cracklingkraken, ASN, RN]

Yes, I'm amazed at the number of people who don't appear to have any concerns about the idea of having a US president who just says whatever crazy thing pops into his head (and then trying to back away from his statements later when they backfire on him).

People joke about it. But we have some major financial debt, as well as all this violence. Something needs to be done.

Back to topic... My arm from the flu shot is still sore.

[toomuchbaloney]

Dr Carson could have taken the well studied and correct scientific stance which is that there is no link between autism and vaccines and that there is no medical or scientific need to "space out" childhood immunizations.

In fact, the typical toddler is exposed to many many more antigens in the course of their daily lives than they are in one immunization visit where they receive multiple injections.

Unfortunately, Dr. Carson and Dr. Paul are apparently Republican candidates more than they are serious physicians at this point in their lives...at least on this topic.

[Nurse Leigh]

And a leading candidate for the office of President of the United States of America last night kept the issue alive on national television.

The two candidates with actual medical degrees didn't do the push for an appropriate vaccine schedule any favors, instead pandering to their ill informed "fans" who ignorantly fear immunizations.

The American Academy of Pediatrics was horrified by what the candidates said. Here is a link to their reply.

https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/Pages/American-Academy-of-Pediatrics-Reiterates-Safety-and-Importance-of-Vaccines.aspx

[macawake, MSN]

If he gets elected as President, I'm moving out of the country.

If that man gets elected as President, I'll start looking into whether emigrating to the moon is a viable option.

About the childhood immunizations..

It seems like Mr Trump thinks that they are beneficial but that they cause autism when given at the recommended schedule (of course we know that scientific evidence doesn't support his belief at all).

All I'm saying is spread it out in smaller doses over a longer period of time.

(2.34-2.38)

What I don't like seeing is a 20-pound little baby going in and having one massive inoculation with all of these things combined. I'd like to spread it out over because, look our autism rate is at a level that it's never been.

(0.27-0.40)

I know at least two people, one of them work in the building that I'm right now. A beautiful woman has a child. The child is 100% healthy. Takes the child I think around a year and a half or two years old, to get the shot. Gets this massive shot of fluids pumped into the baby's body and a few days later catches a fever and all of a sudden is severely autistic.

(1.15-1.41)

Isn't the MMR vaccine 0.5 ml per dose? I'm not sure where he gets the pumping massive amounts of fluids into the babies from, but he uses the word massive on several occasions in the interview. Certainly sounds scary when one expresses it like that.

The evidence is clear. Childhood immunizations do not cause autism and I've found no evidence that supports any potential benefits from spreading the vaccines out or lowering the individual doses.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

Of course our autism prevalence is higher than it's ever been.

The same thing happened with HIV 25-30 years ago. Widen your diagnostic criteria and your point prevalence will increase nearly every time.

[Nurseworks, ASN, RN]

Ugh, still with this? I truly get a kick out of seeing purported people of science throwing around absolutes when it comes to healthcare.

Just to clear up a few things; the choice to make vaccine manufacturers exempt from lawsuits resulted from their (rightfully) being sued for adverse effects from their products (DPT, polio to a lesser extent), not because they weren't making enough money off of them. Those suits did in fact threaten their existence (and by extension the stability of the national vaccine supply), so the government stepped in. Vaccine manufacturers cannot be sued for adverse (not 'normal', lol) reactions, nor are they civilly responsible for design defects (de facto, as the studies regarding various ingredients vs conditions are woefully inadequate), although I believe they can be sued criminally via negligence.

Yes, nothing is 100% safe, even water (love that analogy). But unlike water, you aren't mandated by the government or your employer to drink it (hell, some managers will put you on report for even having a water bottle!). But should you drink it? Of course, it's going to keep you alive, and some vaccines may do the same. I say some because not all vaccine-preventable diseases are deadly or seriously injurious to the majority of people, just as some vaccines are not deadly or seriously injurious to the majority of people. But the exceptions, how we love to harp on the exceptions to make our points. Such pathos is why this debate rages on. When the prevailing rhetoric seeks to improve the current system while lending credence to concerns vocalized by a moderate base, we will see this debate quiet down. But for now, the scare/shaming tactics really aren't helping anyone.

As for "being exposed" to antigens, surely an RN can recognize that the type of antigen and how one is exposed to it can profoundly alter any subsequent reactions. Magically, this little caveat falls by the wayside because some doc who made millions off a vaccine said otherwise. But when two docs go on TV advocating for a change to the schedule, well obviously they are pandering, not that other guy though. As for Trump, he's a blowhard, so no surprise about his blanket assertions.

My tl;dr position; we need a vaccine program, those healthy enough should participate and if something is to be mandated by the government the private sector should A) not profit from it, or B) be lawfully responsible for any adverse circumstances (just like every other capitalist venture).

I know even my moderate stance is grounds for "anti-vaxx" evisceration, so flame away, vaccine templars.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

the private sector should A) not profit from it, or B) be lawfully responsible for any adverse circumstances (just like every other capitalist venture).

So basically some company is going to take on developing and manufacturing a product for which they have financial liability and are not allowed to make a profit from? Do you think anyone would take that offer?

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

No one here has said that 100% of vaccines are safe for 100% of the people 100% of the time. Individual chemistries being what they are, anyone can have a reaction to anything at any time. Scary, sure. But not an excuse for children to die from vaccine-preventable illnesses in the 21st century. My 99yo (not a typo) stepfather lived through the 1918 flu pandemic as a toddler and through diphtheria as a preschooler. And those are just the ones he's told me about.

I challenge you to find a medication out there that is as widely used with as few true adverse effects as vaccines. (Mild systemic effects of a normal immune response are not considered to be true adverse effects.) Quality improvement standards should always be in place. We should always be looking for ways to make an intervention safer than it was before. Hence the switch from whole-cell pertussis to acellular pertussis in the early 90s that caused significantly fewer serious adverse events while yielding similar efficacy.

Immunizations do not cause autism. This has been studied time after time after time. I can't believe the claim is still taken seriously by anyone, much less people with any sort aspiration to a federal executive office.

I like a good conspiracy theory but vaccines are not where it's at. Countries with far less capitalistic economies than the US and not-for-profit healthcare sectors have childhood immunization rates far higher than ours. Childhood immunization is recommended by every single reputable pediatric health organization in the world. If people of science (I'll take that as a compliment, by the way, I'm in a FNP-DNP program) are seemingly throwing around absolutes, it's because there are so few interventions that save lives on the scale that immunizations do.