Top 10 Reasons Against Unions

FlorenceNtheMachine · Sep 18, 2013

Crumbs, they throw at your feet.

If there are any RNs at Orlando Health reading this thread, don't give up! See how standing together can make things change!!

Novo · Sep 19, 2013

I wonder what the OPs true agenda is. Anyone with half a brain knows that unions do far more good than bad for employees.

DoloresMaryHart · Sep 21, 2013

Not to offend but I ardently disagree with your assertions and I know you are speaking out od fear and ignorance. Here is why:

1. the union doesn't write my paycheck.

No, they don't, they fight for your right to make a decent pay check, not be laid off when execs want to slash the budget an make you responsible for 14 patients instead of 7 ( this may not be the case of some RN's, but for others it is). Unions protect your pension and make sure you are not treated like a dog by drawing attention to the meaningful work that all nurses do.

9. unions would rather cause problems than work together.

Saying that unions "cause problems" is a blanket statement that only means that you are to cowardly to value yourself and your craft enough to ensure that in the future (perhaps you have a difficult time with anything that is not now), patients survival rates will increase when union demand that Foreign nurses do not take our jobs and work as scabs, an that a reasonable ratio of nurses to patients is LAW not treating patients like fast food patties, and becoming pegged as a rude B***h, and possibly brought up on criminal neglect charges, because you are so over whelmed. That, is what Unions lobby for, which you call making trouble. TBH I find most of your post defeatist and sycophantic at the same time.

8. union scale means the best workers are carrying the worst.

This is total BS and I'm sure you count your self as a BEST which is rubbish. We all went through nursing school and did clinicals and passed NCLEX; So who exactly are you judging as inferior if all of these accomplishments have been met? If you see an other nurse who needs help learning something new and you can help why wouldn't you. What you are saying shows a huge lapse in moral character and aids no one, with exception to your asinine ego. Drop it already. I am assuming you are referring to new RN's so lets be less cliche and NOT rat our young. You have a really bad attitude and entitlement issues. I don't believe and nurses will prosper if they are anything like you which a good 30% are sad to say.

7. the people who want a union really need one.

If they need some thing why begrudge them of it. Honestly All nurses need a union including you because nothing is going to get better and if you think you are okay today, your assumption that later will be different is a very shortsighted and wrong attitude.

Are you saying abused nurses should have no way of attempting to better their situations? Why can't they have one and why can't your support and advocacy unless it gives you a sense of superiority to look down at other nurses which I sense is exactly the attitude in play here.

6. too corrupt.

Another BS assertion. Unions have been working for 100 years and because members of the trade are so closely involved that Corruption is easily checked simply by creating a union frame work modeled after a union that has been successful, Yet Again I'm dealing with a defeatist, who has already lost the battle and the war and likes it that way.

5. too political, too liberal and too partisan.

Really? This blows my mind, and again reverts to the defeatist attitude. Having a functional non insane workplace where the nurses are well educated, do not false chart, have a manageable patient load (and no, I don't give a crap if you are speed lightning and have taken care of twenty patients single handedly, b/c what you are doing is putting your ego before the big picture: EVERY patients health under your care. Or do you care? Politics is everywhere and if you want change things the rules must change, Even if you think the party in power isn't your favorite. Grow up already and realize only meeting constructive goals matters which mean SPEAKING UP about what is wrong with the system and figuring out how to fix it.

4. unions are only about power and money for the ones who run the union.

More ********. Wall Street took your money and ran, not a union. Yes the people doing the most time consuming work will be paid more but even then the workers say moves the union and nothing else which is why it is your best bet at fair treatment in a deteriorated workplace.

3. unions are negative about everything but how great they are.

I'm not sure what union left you with that chip on your shoulder but i'm simple going to tell you that you are wrong.

2. i like to work steady.

I'll bet, because you have no imagination or vision whatsoever and taking time out to assert that nurses demands are valid and we have been legally overlooked, while even worker in department stores take a mandatory hour long break with 15min/4hr. If you wanted you could do jumping jack on that time, but as for you getting bored and not allowing others to fight for better pay and working conditions is just darn selfish, and you know it. Working steady isn't an option for per diem RN or Homehealth nurses who are used and have NO benifits.

1. I've got too much self respect.

Sorry princess but all you have is pigheaded pride. So, not standing up to assure that Americans have first pick at all American jobs in nursing jobs, instead of foreign scabs who work for nothing and cheapen our trade. aren't brought in, Ensuring the wages made match the increase in cost of living, and that the nurse patient ratio is satisfactory to ensure less mistakes are make. That EVERY nurse has the option of either 8 or 12 hour shifts with OSHA mandated breaks and a competent nurser to assure that the patients are looked after while other RN's are on break. I'm going to tell you what you really have and it is not self respect, it is denial, delusion and arrogance. Period.

I know I'll get flamed for this but so many like minded nurses who think if it isn't their problem the do not have to show concern. Many nurses think in this ass-backwards way and then wonder why we have chronic back problems, Jobs go to people who barely speak English, an new grads in America have 43% unemployment & after 6months past passing Nclex are still jobless. But this 'person' couldn't care, because she's fine with the statuesque. Screw patients and burned out over worked RNs.

The American middle class is dying, but the only people fighting that I've seen are the unions, who preserve workers rights and I don't even think this person is a nurse. I think a troll or propaganda con, or just an older b***h with a cushy life, would couldn't give a ...

DoloresMaryHart · Sep 21, 2013

I said the same thing.

JackSmythe · Sep 21, 2013

That's the way.....insult those with whom you disagree. Not everyone is on the "union train" so to say. The OP is a nurse, an advanced practice rn. Not everybody has to agree but lets be civil about it. Thanks

sneeds · Sep 22, 2013

I thought it was very civil and enlightening. Not everyone is going through a wonderful experience right now and it's causing some heat only because it has been happening for a long time. So if it helps, please excuse the frustration of it all. One may argue that statement of OP was insensitive and inflammatory too in light on current situations for some RNs and some APRN's.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Sep 22, 2013

Not to offend but I ardently disagree with your assertions and I know you are speaking out od fear and ignorance. Here is why:
1. the union doesn't write my paycheck.
No, they don't, they fight for your right to make a decent pay check, not be laid off when execs want to slash the budget an make you responsible for 14 patients instead of 7 ( this may not be the case of some RN's, but for others it is). Unions protect your pension and make sure you are not treated like a dog by drawing attention to the meaningful work that all nurses do.
9. unions would rather cause problems than work together.
Saying that unions "cause problems" is a blanket statement that only means that you are to cowardly to value yourself and your craft enough to ensure that in the future (perhaps you have a difficult time with anything that is not now), patients survival rates will increase when union demand that Foreign nurses do not take our jobs and work as scabs, an that a reasonable ratio of nurses to patients is LAW not treating patients like fast food patties, and becoming pegged as a rude B***h, and possibly brought up on criminal neglect charges, because you are so over whelmed. That, is what Unions lobby for, which you call making trouble. TBH I find most of your post defeatist and sycophantic at the same time.
8. union scale means the best workers are carrying the worst.
This is total BS and I'm sure you count your self as a BEST which is rubbish. We all went through nursing school and did clinicals and passed NCLEX; So who exactly are you judging as inferior if all of these accomplishments have been met? If you see an other nurse who needs help learning something new and you can help why wouldn't you. What you are saying shows a huge lapse in moral character and aids no one, with exception to your asinine ego. Drop it already. I am assuming you are referring to new RN's so lets be less cliche and NOT rat our young. You have a really bad attitude and entitlement issues. I don't believe and nurses will prosper if they are anything like you which a good 30% are sad to say.
7. the people who want a union really need one.
If they need some thing why begrudge them of it. Honestly All nurses need a union including you because nothing is going to get better and if you think you are okay today, your assumption that later will be different is a very shortsighted and wrong attitude.
Are you saying abused nurses should have no way of attempting to better their situations? Why can't they have one and why can't your support and advocacy unless it gives you a sense of superiority to look down at other nurses which I sense is exactly the attitude in play here.
6. too corrupt.
Another BS assertion. Unions have been working for 100 years and because members of the trade are so closely involved that Corruption is easily checked simply by creating a union frame work modeled after a union that has been successful, Yet Again I'm dealing with a defeatist, who has already lost the battle and the war and likes it that way.
5. too political, too liberal and too partisan.
Really? This blows my mind, and again reverts to the defeatist attitude. Having a functional non insane workplace where the nurses are well educated, do not false chart, have a manageable patient load (and no, I don't give a crap if you are speed lightning and have taken care of twenty patients single handedly, b/c what you are doing is putting your ego before the big picture: EVERY patients health under your care. Or do you care? Politics is everywhere and if you want change things the rules must change, Even if you think the party in power isn't your favorite. Grow up already and realize only meeting constructive goals matters which mean SPEAKING UP about what is wrong with the system and figuring out how to fix it.
4. unions are only about power and money for the ones who run the union.
More ********. Wall Street took your money and ran, not a union. Yes the people doing the most time consuming work will be paid more but even then the workers say moves the union and nothing else which is why it is your best bet at fair treatment in a deteriorated workplace.
3. unions are negative about everything but how great they are.
I'm not sure what union left you with that chip on your shoulder but i'm simple going to tell you that you are wrong.
2. i like to work steady.
I'll bet, because you have no imagination or vision whatsoever and taking time out to assert that nurses demands are valid and we have been legally overlooked, while even worker in department stores take a mandatory hour long break with 15min/4hr. If you wanted you could do jumping jack on that time, but as for you getting bored and not allowing others to fight for better pay and working conditions is just darn selfish, and you know it. Working steady isn't an option for per diem RN or Homehealth nurses who are used and have NO benifits.
1. I've got too much self respect.
Sorry princess but all you have is pigheaded pride. So, not standing up to assure that Americans have first pick at all American jobs in nursing jobs, instead of foreign scabs who work for nothing and cheapen our trade. aren't brought in, Ensuring the wages made match the increase in cost of living, and that the nurse patient ratio is satisfactory to ensure less mistakes are make. That EVERY nurse has the option of either 8 or 12 hour shifts with OSHA mandated breaks and a competent nurser to assure that the patients are looked after while other RN's are on break. I'm going to tell you what you really have and it is not self respect, it is denial, delusion and arrogance. Period.
I know I'll get flamed for this but so many like minded nurses who think if it isn't their problem the do not have to show concern. Many nurses think in this ass-backwards way and then wonder why we have chronic back problems, Jobs go to people who barely speak English, an new grads in America have 43% unemployment & after 6months past passing Nclex are still jobless. But this 'person' couldn't care, because she's fine with the statuesque. Screw patients and burned out over worked RNs.
The American middle class is dying, but the only people fighting that I've seen are the unions, who preserve workers rights and I don't even think this person is a nurse. I think a troll or propaganda con, or just an older b***h with a cushy life, would couldn't give a ...

Whoot!!! :up: :inlove: :yes: !!! All THIS good stuff!!!^^^^

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Sep 22, 2013

That's the way.....insult those with whom you disagree. Not everyone is on the "union train" so to say. The OP is a nurse an advanced practice rn. Not everybody has to agree but lets be civil about it. Thanks[/quote']
Umm...DeloresMaryHart DID say "not to offend"...
Sounds civil enough to me....

Not_A_Hat_Person, RN · Sep 23, 2013

There's a great Australian phrase, "Everything before the 'but' is crap."

Unions have an image problem, and it's largely self-inflicted. Most anti-union arguments I've heard have come from union members.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Sep 23, 2013

There's a great Australian phrase, "Everything before the 'but' is crap."
Unions have an image problem, and it's largely self-inflicted. Most anti-union arguments I've heard have come from union members.

Really...wow...that's pretty self depreciating for those who are anti-union union members :wacky:

For those who are anti-union, what's the solution then to rebuilding adequate nursing working conditions??? The ANA?? State Nursing Groups???

I'm curious for those who are saying "unions are not the answer".,.then what IS??? Cause what's going on in Tennessee and Florida will be tried or is happening in other states and facilities, and THAT is not good for ANYONE. :no:

lindarn · Sep 23, 2013

I completely agree. The anti union folks say the same thing- unions are not the answer. Than what is? Give me an example of what would work, not only in nursing, but for workers all over.

I will give an example of something that happened to my family. My father and uncle, worked for the Post Office after they came home from WWII.

The Postal workers were poorly paid, had terrible benefits, issues with harrassment from supervisors.

At some point they unionized. But the union was not taken seriously, pay and benefits stagnated compared to other Federal Workers, the union negotiated contracts every two years, but nothing ever changed.

As the workforce got more and more jaded about condition, etc, they began to pressure the union to do more, and be more aggressive when negotiating new contracts. They began to talk strike. No one had ever gone on strike from the Post Office, even though other Federal workers had gone on strike to achieve better pay and benefits.

The Union drew a line in the sand, and stated that if their demands were not met, the enire Post Office would go on strike. No one in management took them serioulsy, or believed that they would.

In March of 1970, the ENTIRE POST OFFICE FROM COAST TO COAST WENT ON STRIKE, IN ALL STATES, AND I BELIEVE ALASKA AND HAWAII!!

The strike lasted three days. That is all it took for the Post Office to bring this country to its knees!

The postal workers gained large pay increases, improved benefits, and working conditions, and took control over their jobs.

We could do the same thing. They did it in Canada in the 70s, went on strike for weeks. Hospitals closed wings, surgeries were cancelled, etc. But they did not give in, even when the union was fined thousand of dollars, they remained on strike. They finally got what they wanted by remaining strong.

What would it take to get the, "martry marys", of nursing to realize that being nice does not get you anything. The only thing that big business understands is power. As long as nurses come off as weak, we will get nothing.

Until we take control of our profession, we will continue to see our professional practice sold to the highest bidder, and de professionized as HS dropouts are given our professional practice

I spite of fiscal problems in communities, no one is suggesting that teachers be replaced by unskilled workers, are they? And no one ever died because they could not do long division or diagram a sentence. But we know that patients all over are being injured because they had a nurse who had too many patients to care for. THAT is the point we need to make to the public. THEY are being harmed because nursing is stretched too thin.

It is not a case of not enough nurses. It is a case that hospitals do not want to staff properely to ensure safe care for the patients who are paying to receive professional nursing services. Proper staffing with patient ratios, is the Holy Grail of Nursing.

Until nurses DEMAND that our professional services be billed separately. Instead of being rolled in with the housekeeping, laundry, and the complimentary roll of toilet paper, our professional services will remain invisible to the public, and the CEOs.

We need to make our services visible so we can counter claims that we bring in no income to the hospital.

I think that we should just start doing it ourselves. Every day, at the end of your shift, fill out a patient charge form. Write down, "Nursing Professional Services Rendered- twelve hours/$30.00/hr-$360.00." And submit it. When the hospital questions it, explain that patients need to know that their professional services are not free, they cost money. The need to see how much nursings professional services are worth. Maybe when the public sees that we are not worthless, we will have more worth to them.

As long as they are led to believe that our services are worthless, they will not appreciate what we do for them.

Here is a poem that I learned years ago, and sums up nursing-

"WE THE WILLING, LET BY THE UNKNOWING, ARE DOING THE IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE UNGRATEFUL. WE HAVE WORKED SO LONG WITH SO LITTLE, THAT WE ARE NOW QUALIFIED TO DO ANYTHING WITH NOTHING"

JMHO and my NY $0.02

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN (ret)

Somewhere in the PACNW

CraigB-RN, MSN, RN · Sep 24, 2013

I'm one of those "union" people who speak out against unions.

The concept of a union is a noble one. No argument there. But just like our government ceasing to serve the people and becoming an end unto itself, unions turn into an organization that is about the union and not the people it represents.

This unfortunately is the basis of human nature and organizations.

I've been involved in 3 different unions over the past 35 years. Each one turned out bad. I LOST money, lost a job because of the strike the contract with the county was pulled, and I've had incompetent co workers keep working because it was to hard to fire them, due to the union rules.

The union is seen as a magic wand that will fix all the problems, without causing any hardship. It's taken us decades to get to the point we are at now, it's not going to be fixed overnight. Union negotiations are a compromise. If you want more $, you're going to get less people. If you want more people, your going to get less money.

What is the answer? Nothing easy, it may be union, I don't know. But the issue isn't really the local hospital. It's a cultural problem that goes right to the top of our political system and our nursing culture.

We need to start with ourselves. Get rid of the cut "nurse" stuff. Start acting like a professional and demand that every one treats us as professional. This has to be done from the newest grad to the most senior nurse in the organization. One by one. It's a simplification but read the book "From Silence To Voices"

Get out and start speaking to service organizations. Tell them what a nurse is. Write to your representative. Tell anyone who will listen.

Union becomes about emotion and becomes self serving. Just look at Hostess. One union "Stood" it's ground. Now no Hostess and other unions lost work also.