Certified Medication Aide

pagandeva2000, LPN · May 28, 2008

I do think that having CMAs decreases the value of LPNs, or nurses. But, the issue I would have with it is that if a mistake is made, who is ultimately responsible for that error, the medication aide or the licensed nurse on duty? I used to be a certified AMAP when working in psych, and we dispensed oral medications. They taught us a bit, but nothing in comparison to my training as a nurse. And, I do remember that when we made errors, the nurses would go wild. Later, they took it away from the aides and gave it back to the nurses. If they are going to take the ultimate responsibility for their errors, meaning that they face their own board, then, I would feel more comfortable.

asoonernurse · May 28, 2008

That was more along the line of an answer I was looking for. Thank you, Egglady. :up:

My rant for the day is this:

The RN Unions have already held the door open for us as we leave the acute care settings, and now, from the other end of the spectrum, we have the CNAs quietly gaining more and more certifications in what once was the sole providence of the LVN!

As I see it, this is simply a further erosion of the LVNs duties, and for lack of a better term, importance, in the LTC community.

Where does it stop? Today it's a four-hour course that introduces them to medication administration (granted, on a basic level). But their foot is in the proverbial door now, isn't it?

What's next? A six-month course at a CC so they can become certified to hand out everything up to narcs and coverage? Then what? Another 3-month course so they can be certified to do coverage?

Oh lordy, how the administrators would LOVE that! Keep around a couple of LVNs for "supervisory roles" and an RN charge, then hire a slew of newly-upgraded med pushers to fill out the rest of the staff. Perhaps they'll certify them in wound care next!

It's slippery slope, and one I'm SURE is NOT going to bode well for the LVN profession.

RNs have already begun to consolidate their power with Nursing Unions (and have quickly learned what kind of power that gives them!) Smart.

What have LVNs done? We're all standing around...

DOING. ABSOLUTELY. NOTHING.

Just my :twocents: . What do you see happening to the LVN over the next 20 years or so? We a dying breed?

Regards,

Michael

Like I said before, there is SO much more to "passing meds" then just spooning them in. You have to know the meds, the possible side effects, the assessing before giving meds. This list goes on and on. Would a med aid have any idea what to do if the patient had an adverse reaction? Would they know to hold a med if vs not stable- such as a pulse at 48- would they still just spoon on in some dig? If a blood sugar was low would they still give insulin? If a B/p was low would they know to hold certain meds? Then would they know to call the doc, and to reassess? I dont think they would. I am not bashing them, I am just saying that a 4 hour course just doesnt cut it for safe med admin. I know where I am at, there are more LPN on staff than RN. It is a budget thing. As long as there is an RN in the building or on call, then they get by with all LPN's. They would not be able to do that with med aids. Plus, I dont think ( I am not positive) med aids can give narcs, or anything invasive. So, it would seem that they would need a nurse anyways....

mizfradd, CNA · May 29, 2008

CMA=certified medication aide

CMT=certified medication tech

I am a CNA II & a CMA (considered either of the above according to

my certification) which, in my state, consisted of 40 hrs. training

by an RN and passing written & skills (MAR) test.

The excellent flight nurse RN who taught our class said he didn't believe

in a lot of what he's seen being done over recent yrs. in allowing

CNA's certification in certain areas that in his exact words," Falls back

on my license & ass!" :imbar sorry.....but that's what he said.

A lot of us agreed with him, but, hey, when your company requires you

to do it and it's going to help pts. & the nurse and it's gonna get you a

bit of a raise and look great on a resumé, why not go for it? An added

plus is that I always enjoy learning new things.

joolia · May 29, 2008

^My thoughts exactly.^

Don't hate the player. Hate the game.

Regardless of my philosophical beliefs on the state of nursing, if I can take a 4 hour course that will allow me to get hired as a "med tech" rather than a plain old CNA, to the tune of an extra $.50 an hour while I'm working/waiting my turn to get into nursing school, then I am all about it.

KarynicaRN · May 30, 2008

My daughter works with developmentally disabled people in a 16 bed CILA home. She was trained by the RN who oversees the program. She was first a DSP (disability service person) and now has her medication aide training certificate. The course she took was similiar to the pharmacology course I took in LPN school, just shorter, but just as intense. She can give medications to the people who live in the CILA home she works in. I am not too certain about upstate, though. (I am way south, almost to KY)

Wish I could help you more. If I come across something, I will let you know.

NurseToBe20100102 · May 31, 2008

I think that it is a good thing to have esp. if you are going onto nursing school; that is why I took my job because we administer insulin, meds, blood sugars, do doctors orders, give suppositories... I think that its a good thing to have to help out with the LPN/ RN's so they can focus more on what they need to get done....

mizfradd, CNA · Jun 2, 2008

My daughter works with developmentally disabled people in a 16 bed CILA home. She was trained by the RN who oversees the program. She was first a DSP (disability service person) and now has her medication aide training certificate. The course she took was similiar to the pharmacology course I took in LPN school, just shorter, but just as intense. She can give medications to the people who live in the CILA home she works in. I am not too certain about upstate, though. (I am way south, almost to KY)
Wish I could help you more. If I come across something, I will let you know.

Funny how the titles are different in a lot of states; in my state DSP stands for Direct Support Personnel & also called DSA which stands for Direct Support Aide. There's so many different titles nowadays! :)

snookibear · May 19, 2009

Here is a link thats addresses the original question what states have CMA's?

http://www.medaidesillinois.org/pdf/otherstates/statebystate.pdf

sonomala · May 20, 2009

Its only my op, but rather then adding a six month course here, a three month course there, I would much rather see it go to being a degree program at a community college or at the very least a one year program like surgical techs. Its too much responsibility with too little training, in my op. I know the ltc owners will never support it because then they'd have to pay their staff more. I agree with anyone becoming a med aide to make more money but as a family member if I had a relative that needed to go to ltc, no way am I going to one that uses them. Even my last work place refused to use them because in it wasn't worth the risk. And the nurses while overworked didn't want to use them either. But I don't mean to offend, just state my op thats all.

paularry,rn · Apr 27, 2011

i am a don in a ltc facility and we are actually phasing out our lpns. we have been working five lpns a day/night to 100 patients. and we are now gonna be working five qma's and 2 rns around the clock. this is saving our system alot of money.

jjic3982 · Apr 27, 2011

Just out of curiosity, are the 2 rns (with the qma's) working on 100 patients altogether? Paularry also is your facility having difficulty paying the lpns or just to be on the safer side is it better to have qma's, (of course, if you don't mind me asking).

I would love to see what the DON's go through. (to see the business side of nursing)

CNABESS · Apr 28, 2011

In the state of RI. a CMA must take a 45 hour course taught by a RPH. This course is taught at URI. One must also have been a CNA for a full year and be recommended to the program, be supervised passing meds and pass a test. To renew this license the CMA must also complete CEUs every 2 years. A CMA cannot pass Schedule II drugs, give IM or IV meds or a pump.