How do CRNAs get treated by MDAs ?

allnurses Guide · Jun 29, 2014

In general there is a cordial professional working relationship between MDAs and CRNAs. The politics generally happens outside of the ORs. What you see on SDN and nursing forums is often just people venting and each side protecting their "turf".

I try to avoid SDN since most of the opinions on SDN are not even from anesthesia providers, and are ill informed at the very least.

Screen name · Jun 29, 2014

Have tough skin and hold your own. It's a political field to work in. Be active in the PAC.

ATBStudent · Jun 29, 2014

My Mom LOVES being a CRNA. She gets along fine with the Anesthesiologists and many of the MDs in the hospital request her specifically for their cases. I think you just came across a wonky thread - any intelligent MD understands the value of a good nurse.

Mrhanddiya · Jul 2, 2014

The truth is it's all about money and power. Period. That's it. Money and Power. A friend of mine has been an anesthesiologist for 30+ years and has seen and done it all with MDs and CRNAs. We have had plenty of discussions about these sdn threads and he tells me if you want to get right down to it, it is about the MDA's ability to generate money and be in a superior position. They cannot imagine it being any other way. Not as equals, and certainly not as inferiors. It isn't like that with all of them, but a good majority. It is not about patient safety, although that is the drum they constantly beat. Again, it is money and it is power. Bottom line is they feel it a duty to protect the profession and their status within it. Fortunately, as wtbcrna alludes to, most of it is left out of the work place and people get along.

As an afterthought I've always thought it would be interesting to set up a study where you could randomly pick 30 anesthesiologist to monitor random anesthetist performing anesthesia not knowing whether the person they're observing is a CRNA or an MDA. And then have them try and pick out who is performing the anesthetic. I bet the results would be astounding.

allnurses Guide · Jul 2, 2014

I can almost always tell by walking in the OR and looking at anesthesia setup whether it was/is being done by an MDA or CRNA. CRNAs tend to more methodically in their setups and a lot of MDAs setups are down right sloppy. It seems that some MDAs are expecting people to clean up after them. There are outliers in each group but this seems to hold true for most CRNAs and MDAs.

BCRNA · Jul 3, 2014

It is about power and money, even though physicians claim patient safety concerns. Where I work it has been so long since anesthesiologists actually gave anesthesia by themselves that it is no longer safe for them to practice independently, we actually have a policy stating CRNAs have to be the primary anesthesia provider. Of course the wording is done to make it sound like a simple staffing issue.

The actual working relationship is great, all of the backstabbing occurs outside the hospital with PAC donations and support. Also, you can go to the ASA website and see the political undertones in the statements about CRNA education. They still make it sound like RNs with BSNs are giving anesthesia.

jwk · Jul 4, 2014

They still make it sound like RNs with BSNs are giving anesthesia.

There are still thousands who do just that.

allnurses Guide · Jul 5, 2014

There are still thousands who do just that.

There are approximately 40K CRNAs, and the vast majority of those have at least a Masters degree.

There are approximately 25% of CRNAs that still identify themselves as only having a diploma or Bachelor degree as their highest degree, but there is no indication if these CRNAs are still actively working or just maintaining their AANA membership.

loveanesthesia · Jul 11, 2014

There are still thousands who do just that.

That is incredibly misleading. There are CRNAs with bachelors degrees, but they are not BSNs. They all have advanced training in anesthesia, and all CRNAs always have.

Propofolgtt · Jul 29, 2014

To the original question:

It depends on where you work, and down to individual doc and crna. I work in a "team model," where the docs do the pre- and post-op, blocks, and may show up at induction in OR/Endo(GI), CT, MRI, ASU, Cath Lab, and ElectroPhys. The exception being Heart Cases, they'll actually spend time at the head of the bed for a while, for a TEE, etc. And they cover the majority of OB. All that being said; my working relationship with the docs is great. I even hang out with a few, occasionally, outside of work.

IndiCRNA · Sep 29, 2014

There are approximately 40K CRNAs, and the vast majority of those have at least a Masters degree.
There are approximately 25% of CRNAs that still identify themselves as only having a diploma or Bachelor degree as their highest degree, but there is no indication if these CRNAs are still actively working or just maintaining their AANA membership.

When I was in NA school one of my clinical preceptors was a super sharp older gentleman who had been a CRNA since the early 70's. He didn't have a degree in anything. He had a diploma RN and was trained in an 18 month long hospital based certificate anesthesia program. He was a fantastic provider and was the "go-to-guy" for tough cases for both MDA residents and CRNAs. All of the MDA residents learned their open heart cases from him. He also was an instructor in the Physicians Advanced Airway Management course required for solo ER providers.

He read constantly and had plans on working, at least part time, into his 70's. Also a heck of a nice man who loved to teach.

To the OP. Remember that anesthesia was a NURSING specialty long before it was a physician specialty. The first MDAs had to be taught by early CRNAs. Never pay any attention to anything said on studentdoc.net.

I can't really tell you how MDAs treat CRNAs. If one ever shows up around here I will let you know.