CRNA vs Physician Salaries - page 3

Source: www.payscale.com Parameters: 5 years experience in all fields City: Chicago Salary quoted: 50th percentile unless otherwise noted Physicians are quoted for private practice CRNA... Read More

  1. by   TexasGas
    Quote from platon20
    Thats absolutely irrelevant to the fight that the AANA is waging against AAs and you know it. The bottom line is that the studies show that AAs (in whatever supervision venue) have equal outcomes to CRNAs. Therefore you dont have a leg to stand on in fighting against their licensure in TExas and other states.

    Lets get real.
    Yes, lets "get real".

    Supervision, regardless if you agree or not, is a CRITICAL difference when comparing the two professions. In our state, a 15 year old can drive under the supervision of a licensed driver, over age 18 and in the front passenger seat. You cannot compare the driving skills of this person with a seasoned driver.

    A trusty from the local jail is allowed to mow the grass outside the courthouse, under the supervision of a deputy. You cannot compare this person's ability to be trusted mowing with a professional lawn care expert.

    I have supervised my oldest son as he has replaced the tube in his rear wheel tire. i would never put his results against that of a bike shop tech.

    Supervision is a huge issue, and it does not equate with the autonomy afforded CRNAs as they have demonstrated a safety record IDENTICAL to MDAs when unsupervised. AAs have no such claim, in any shape, form, or fashion.

    And as such, AAs do not alleviate the fact that more counties in Texas are either soley served by CRNAs or not at all. An AA must work under the DIRECT supervision of an MDA.

    The facts are that 10.4 CRNAs can be educated for the cost of one MDA. That equates to greater than 10 qualified providers WITH AUTONOMY.

    82 counties in Texas have CRNAs as sole providers of anesthesia.

    43% of ALLhospitals in Texas rely on CRNAs as the SOLE provider of anesthesia.

    AAs cannot fill this void, and AAs are being used as pawns for MDAs to gain control.
  2. by   ali anesthesia
    Quote from platon20
    Thats absolutely irrelevant to the fight that the AANA is waging against AAs and you know it. The bottom line is that the studies show that AAs (in whatever supervision venue) have equal outcomes to CRNAs. Therefore you dont have a leg to stand on in fighting against their licensure in TExas and other states.

    Lets get real. The reason the AANA is fighthing against AAs has absolutely NOTHING to do with safety and EVERYTHING to do with GREED. The AANA and CRNAs like you are scared of competition in the market place from these AAs.

    Thats why you are exactly like the MDAs. Because they fought against CRNAs for EXACTLY hte same reason you are fighting against AAs.

    the CRNA and MDA organizations are both pigs rolling in the mud on this.

    I suggest you reveal who you are and your motivations. If you want to get involved in a ....ing contest, be prepared to suffer the consequences. No matter how you or anyone else try to manipulate the facts, there is no study showing any difference in CRNA care and MDA anesthesia. The AAs don't fit in this equation, because of the legal requirement of MDA supervision.

    You better believe the AANA has the best interests of its members at heart. If they didn't, why should they exist? We are considered one of the best lobbying groups in the nation in both the state and federal levels. We are one of the most sought after professions, with high standards to even qualify to get into the programs. If you have a problem with this, post on another forum where you will have a captive audience. I would rather see posts here by professional anesthesia providers (not AAs) and people who are interested in our powerful profession.

    Ail (CRNA)
  3. by   TexasGas
    Quote from paindoc
    I administer general anesthesia for free (how many CRNAs would routinely do that?).
    Oh my. You have such an original idea. You mean you volunteer your services... for no charge?

    I should call HVO (Health Volunteers Overseas) and let them know you came up with the idea first. Many, many people of all health professions volunteer their skills and time in their communities, and on foreign soil. Most do it without calling attention to themselves.

    Please do not act as if CRNAs are not giving of their free time to help those in need. You are running out of disparaging things to make up about CRNAs.
  4. by   Nitecap
    Quote from TexasGas
    Yes, lets "get real".

    Supervision, regardless if you agree or not, is a CRITICAL difference when comparing the two professions. In our state, a 15 year old can drive under the supervision of a licensed driver, over age 18 and in the front passenger seat. You cannot compare the driving skills of this person with a seasoned driver.

    A trusty from the local jail is allowed to mow the grass outside the courthouse, under the supervision of a deputy. You cannot compare this person's ability to be trusted mowing with a professional lawn care expert.

    I have supervised my oldest son as he has replaced the tube in his rear wheel tire. i would never put his results against that of a bike shop tech.

    Supervision is a huge issue, and it does not equate with the autonomy afforded CRNAs as they have demonstrated a safety record IDENTICAL to MDAs when unsupervised. AAs have no such claim, in any shape, form, or fashion.

    And as such, AAs do not alleviate the fact that more counties in Texas are either soley served by CRNAs or not at all. An AA must work under the DIRECT supervision of an MDA.

    The facts are that 10.4 CRNAs can be educated for the cost of one MDA. That equates to greater than 10 qualified providers WITH AUTONOMY.

    82 counties in Texas have CRNAs as sole providers of anesthesia.

    43% of ALLhospitals in Texas rely on CRNAs as the SOLE provider of anesthesia.

    AAs cannot fill this void, and AAs are being used as pawns for MDAs to gain control.

    Nice post. One thing I do question is the statement of educating 10 CRNA's for one MD. My total of CRNA school will be about 120-130K. I really dont think it takes 1.2 million to educate 1 anesthesiologists. I think the AANA needs to quit using this stat or show the data to validate it.

    I am glad the Texas Association of Nurse Anesthetist has finally proven their statement that 80 Texas Counties are soely served by CRNAs. The list, including hospitals, is found on the TANA website, which by the way all TEXAS CRNAs and SRNA should visit at www.txana.org. Use the voter voice option to contact your lawmakers. Send the prewritten letter. It takes 2 minutes tops.
  5. by   jewelcutt
    Cost of education is the cost that the hospital pays not what you pay. SRNAs don't get paid, in fact they pay to learn. MDA residents get paid, in addition to all of their food and some get help with housing, in addition to the cost of training them.
  6. by   TexasGas
    Quote from Nitecap
    One thing I do question is the statement of educating 10 CRNA's for one MD. My total of CRNA school will be about 120-130K. I really dont think it takes 1.2 million to educate 1 anesthesiologists.
    You may have debt of $120-130k, but surely your program didn't cost a total much more than $50k.

    On top of that, medical school and residency costs some public monies that are not allocated to nursing education. Medical residents are generally paid while training. With the exception of a few locations, most hospitals do not offer even stipends for the work performed by the RRNA. In some instances, the students are being required to pay the hospital fees that cannot be collected from Medicare mediaries for central line and art lin placement. Medicare reimburses CRNA line placement and physicians and medical residents. But they do not generally reimburse RRNAs, so the students must pay from their own pocket for their training. These are calculated into the cost afforded. And don't mistake how much of the anesthesiaologist education may be subsidized by public funds. Very rarely does such an avenue for eductaion payment exist for CRNA training. It is done almost soley by private pay by students.
  7. by   MikeyJ
    A lot of you are making ridiculous invalid points. You are comparing apples to oranges. Before responding perhaps you should go take an economics class and get an idea of how our healthcare system works.
  8. by   MikeyJ
    Quote from jewelcutt
    Cost of education is the cost that the hospital pays not what you pay. SRNAs don't get paid, in fact they pay to learn. MDA residents get paid, in addition to all of their food and some get help with housing, in addition to the cost of training them.
    Did you stop to compare the two training systems for MDA's and CRNA's? A CRNA gets their BSN and then works in a hospital while being paid very good money for approx. 2 years. They then enroll in CRNA school between 2 and 3 years while they are training to become a CRNA. Yes, they are not paid but instead are paying to be there.

    An MD goes to undergrad for 4 years, then to med school for 4 more years. During those 8 years they are not working, or if they are it is very minimal work. Granted, they then embark on their residency where they do 3 years of training where they are worked to the bone with very little pay. As long as they choose not to pursue a fellowship, they are then able to practice as an anesthesiologist. Now your statement regarding how SRNA's pay to learn and MDA's are being paid to learn is a mockery because you forgot to stop and compare the two.
  9. by   jewelcutt
    My statement is not a mockery, it wasn't meant to insult. I was basically clarifying for an above poster about the cost of training a resident versus srna for the hospital alone. Nothing at all to do with the amount of debt a person ends up in, rather how much the hospital pays. I didn't think residents got "paid very little", I've talked to many that make the same amount as nurses.
  10. by   NRSKarenRN
    Many rude, flaming posts have been made to this thread that upon review, due not meet TOS posting guidelines. Since members can not seem to have a debate on this subject without name calling, this thread is now closed.

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