Medical law

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · May 11, 2015

I know several RN/JDs.... all work in Clinical Risk Management - very well compensated. One used to work for the "dark side" (malpractice atty) until she came to her senses. All but one have MSNs - one has BSN. You don't need a masters degree to attend law school. I think there is a school in Ohio that offers a combo MSN/JD degree, but don't know for sure.

Trauma Columnist · May 11, 2015

Sounds like a very lucrative career move.

Here is what I found:

MSN Juris Doctor | Capital University

synaptic · May 11, 2015

I already have my fnp and have for a while. Will def look into it though trauma. Forgot to mention I had my fnp already. I have heard from some of the docs and pharmacists I work with at hospital that it is very lucrative, especially if you have experience in the medical field and such.

Chocolate_RN85 · May 19, 2015

@sypnactic Ummmmm, it seams like your very undecided with your career choices. Take some time out before you get yourself into another degree that you might be bored with. Not sure what your financial situation is , but I don't believe post grads programs are cheap ðŸ˜

technofreak · May 19, 2015

I have been thinking after completing my Pych NP degree to go back and get a law degree for medical law. I was wondering if anybody has any experience in this or if anybody knows anybody who has gone this route and noted any success from it. A few people have spoken to me about this type of career and it seems very interested and as if it may have some good possibilities for great advancement. They say the law market is tough in many areas, just as the NP market can be tough, but I believe that going to a reputable school would alleviate any of these problems, and also having a degree and significant experience in the medical field would also probably help. I would probably lay my focus on a defense attorney positions since I do not have any urge to go after people for malpractice. Not too worried about student loans since I got my degrees from pretty cheap schools and didn't have to shovel out the ridiculous amount that it seems many people pay for some of these online programs that are from for profit universities.
Any info would be great
Best regards

1. Employment prospects are VERY tough for new attorneys. Way worst than new grad NPs IMHO. It's REALLY, really bad.

(The Employment Rate Falls Again for Recent Law School Graduates - Businessweek

Job market for would-be lawyers is even bleaker than it looks, analysis says

No New Lawyers! Economy Can't Handle Them | The Fiscal Times)

2. Law school is not like nursing where a "degree is a degree". You seem to recognize that somewhat in your original post but I still feel like you are underestimating how much the law school you attend matters. You should be aiming for a T14 school. Think Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, Yale, Duke, NYU et al. These schools are VERY difficult to get into, and although you stated that tuition didn't matter, if granted admissions, expect to pay $150K+.

3. Although attorneys who attend TOP law programs earn TOP pay, this is also more true than not, if you pursue corporate law, this is not an easy road. Grades matter a lot! And unless you attend a T3 school where they don't grade their students so therefore you are not ranked, please note that if you attend other lower tier schools, you will be RANKED, and corporate law firms will ask for your ranking amongst classmates at interviews. Also know that some law firms only recruit from certain schools (especially those with the top pay that you are seeking). I think your experience is definitely something unique that you bring to the table, but law firms are equally concerned about what school you graduated from and your grades. Additionally, biglaw firms that offer the best pay compensation are also interested in whether you made law review. Law review is very competitive.

I think law is an interesting field of study but one that comes with a lot of risks. If you can get into a top program your chances at succeeding increases exponentially. I would not recommend law school to anyone who cannot get into a T14 program, irrespective of their experience. The job market for new grad attorneys is deplorable. Please visit www.top-law-schools.com/ if you haven't done so already.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · May 19, 2015

Technofreak, I agree with what you posted, there has been much discussion on these issues within the legal profession and it is easily found online actually. However, I think the OP has an interest in a field that represents more of a niche practice that does not necessarily reflect the typical new law school grad looking for a job.

I think for a niche practice such as Healthcare Law, being enterpreneurial by charting your own course can make the difference. You, of course, need to know your field really really well. A well known NP, JD (at least in the NP circle) who is also an accomplished author of NP related law literature did not attend a Top 14 Law school yet has made a seemingly successful "business" out of a combined NP, JD degree.

There is no doubt that one has to possess the right amount of inherent talent to pull it off and just being able to attend law school won't be enough.

Jeff P · May 20, 2015

I am an attorney and RN in Ohio...but I did it the unconventional way. I was a lawyer before going back for my BSN. In my experience most attorney's are skilled as generalists and can learn most nuances of law without needing to be in the medical profession. They rely on expert opinions on most everything anyway, so being an RN doesn't really help that much. The real benefit is being able to market yourself to employers. Most risk management attorney's were litigators first so if you want to get into risk management, I would count on several years of losing your soul and life for little pay. Also, most lawyers do not make much money and the schooling is way harder than nursing (FYI I am also in NP school right now). I went to Akron Law which does have a joint degree program for JD and MBA and adds 1 year to the 3 year fulltime program.

PG2018 · May 21, 2015

Check out the Top Law Schools forum. It's kind of like AN - a bunch of disgruntled folks yammering about their woes. Nonetheless, I used to look in on it. I worked very closely with the legal system in my first career and wanted very much to go to law school. I even rubbed shoulders with some admissions people and was told quite matter of factly that if I had a decent LSAT I could've gone to their school with money, i.e. PsychGuy would not have paid law school tuition. I stewed on that for a couple of years, but I became disenchanted with the dog and pony show that most adversarial court proceedings really are. I subscribed to LSDAS, got all of my documents together, essays, and even paid to take a LSAT review...but I never went. I truly believe I would have been very good at law because of the way my mind works. This was before healthcare at least. I tell my wife all the time that when I when the Power Ball I'm going to law school for fun! Granted, I've never once bought a lottery ticket so that's going to be really hard to win. Frankly, I probably make more now than I ever would've in law. I like what I do, but law schools has forever been a siren for me calling out to me with her arousing lullabies.

Here's what I've learned about law schools over the last 15 years: if you want the law degree to make a da** you're going to have to go to a reputable school.

You can go to night school and the lower tier city school, pass the bar, and likely get a job doing something lawyery, but if want a good job, doing interesting things, your initial education is what speaks.

synaptic · May 21, 2015

After researching it and reading all this i think Ill pass. I bought a few cheap law books to read and I think that will satisfy my desire. Id rather not pay 150k to take a huge payout. I also found out that the public defender attorneys that work above my gym only make 45k per year. My gym itself that I opened this winter makes that much, excluding employee costs, which if I worked it myself I would keep all that money. You all seem to be correct in that a law degree at this time isn't a worthy investment.

PG2018 · May 21, 2015

After researching it and reading all this i think Ill pass. I bought a few cheap law books to read and I think that will satisfy my desire. Id rather not pay 150k to take a huge payout. I also found out that the public defender attorneys that work above my gym only make 45k per year. My gym itself that I opened this winter makes that much, excluding employee costs, which if I worked it myself I would keep all that money. You all seem to be correct in that a law degree at this time isn't a worthy investment.

In my state, the elected prosecutors (called district attorneys in some states) recently got a pay raise to 123k or 127k per year. I can't recall which, but that's transpired in the last month. These are typically people who have worked successfully in private practice and as deputy (hired) prosecutors. The actual "prosecutor" is an elected position and represents a multi-county district (or circuit).

I read that and thought a couple of things; they were already making more than I thought they were, and they're still make quite a bit less than I do. So I was like "whew! glad I didn't do that."

I think if I had become a lawyer I could've done nothing but be a prosecutor. I've worked with some corporate-types, and contracts are booooorrrrrriiiiiinnnnnngggggg. Civil practice is interesting and worthwhile if it's a credible suit, IMO. I've found most public defenders to be sleeze bags. I knew one who was sleeping with female clients, ended up going bankrupt, and set up his practice in the corner of a Laundromat using a folding table and lawn chair. Granted, this is NOT generalizable, but I generally can't empathize with the need to advocate for felons. The nature of modern law enforcement is such that, despite what you've seen recently on the media, officers have become very reasonable and prudent legal technicians and when an arrest is made you can bet it's valid and the offender is guilty. It's the defender's role to walk them through the system, as required by the Constitution, and try to find a technical loop hole in the decision made by an officer, often under split seconds, while the defender continues to request continuances to further rake over the report and law procedure and precedent.

I've never worked closely with risk management or medicolegal specialists. Hopefully, I never will.

synaptic · May 21, 2015

Only thing I don't understand is why there are so many lawyers. The school is difficult id say and often times boring. I suppose up until 10 years ago the jobs where very prosperous. I'm sure the nursing field will see the same glut in the future as many nurses decide it is much more lucrative to be an np in comparison to an rn. Which isn't always the case but seems to be the standing predicament we are in.

All all I know if I wasn't an np already now I would NOT go back to be an np. Not regretting my decision but if your not an np now you probably have missed the opportunity in most cases. It is becoming saturated for new graduates very quickly. What would I do? Medical school dental school or computer programming.

Medical school will soon follow the np glut also I am sure. But they have a little bit more time than we do.

If you want the future bucks and can stand sitting in front of a computer all day, which is what I do anyway, so doftware programming, you will not regret it monetarily.