we've had a rash of it this week -- people claiming to be the spouse of the patient when they are not. really, i'm not making moral judgements about your living arrangements -- i just need to know who is the legal next of kin when we go to get consent for that procedure. it is not at all helpful if you repeatedly tell me that "i'm jean's husband" when you know you're not, jean's mother knows you're not, jean's children know you're not and even the neighbor lady who brought in those flowers knows you're not jean's husband. believe me, someone is going to let it slip sooner or later and then we won't trust you any more.
it really isn't that difficult. if you're heterosexual, either you're married or you're not. (for same sex couples, it's not so cut and dried, although i never seem to have thise issues with same sex couples.)
you're alfred's wife in every way except you don't have that piece of paper from city hall, and everyone knows it's the love in your heart that's more important than any piece of paper -- not married.
you haven't lived with percival in six months since you caught him with that floozy from the neighborhood diner, but neither of you has gotten around to filing for divorce -- married.
you're the second or seventh wife in a polygamous family -- not married.
you've always meant to get married, but never discussed it and now lovebunny is comatose -- not married, and believe it or not, you're not the fiance, either.
you've been married for 36 years and now agatha has alzheimer's and is living in a nursing home and some doctor calls you for consent to put in a feeding tube and your live-in girlfriend is upset because she doesn't want you visiting agatha -- sorry dude, you're married. suck it up and make some decisions.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i understand why they do it. the hippaa laws have gotten providers so crazy that three weeks ago, my husband had to give a written ok for the doc to discuss dh's medical info with me. we've been married over 20 years.
now imagine you're not able to discuss the information with the medical personnel and getting an explanation by a sedated patient about what procedures and tests they had and what lifestyle changes needed to be made.
believe me, if the info is not forthcoming from the medical providers, miscommunications can lead to real problems.
maybe it would help if you asked if patient wanted to share info w/ others first??
i firmly believe that ascertaining whom the patient considers family and what information he or she wants shared should be part of every admission process. even if that were the policy, there are some situations where it just isn't possible.
if you are legally entitled to get married and have made the decision not to do so, or have not yet made the decision to do so, you are not the spouse and are not entitled to the priveleges nor subject to the responsibilities of a spouse. if the patient wants you to have protected medical information anyway, they can make that clear up front. if they are only sedated, one can assume that they will wake up and be provided with the information on lifestyle changes, etc. if they are comatose, then that information clearly does not apply at this time.
it makes me cranky when people lie to me, and it makes me tend to distrust anything they tell me in the future. if you're not the spouse, tell me that. then tell me who is the legal next of kin so that i can contact that person. believe me, we'll let you visit as much as possible and if you're not entitled to make medical decisions for the patient, you don't need to know the details of their condition. the person who is entitled to make those decisions is free to share as much with you as they choose.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i love it:yeah: you are willing to tell it like it is and please consider working the prisons. we need more of this:d
i'd consider it if it weren't for the fact that my retirement is all tied up in my current place of employment and i'm rather happy there. it seems that prisons might be a place where visitors are limited, patients cannot misbehave (or the guards will take care of the situation), and staff would be willing to tell it like it is.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
sounds like the you may be a redneck. you may be married if...
although i know, i know, it ain't real funny...
quite possibly i am a redneck. i'm from the upper midwest, though, and i don't completely understand the criteria. i have all my teeth except for three wisdom teeth, and i have no ink. therefore, i suspect that my teeth to tattoo ratio may exclude me.
and i had hoped it would be humorous -- better to laugh at these things than get mad.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
ruby, i just love your post's!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wish i worked with you, you must be a blast!
thank you. but i suspect that telling it like it is qualifies you for "mean nurse" status. and i just never learned how to sugar coat anything. i'm working on increasing my level of tactfulness, however.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
my state has both common law marriage and same-sex marriage. go iowa!
i totally agree on the same sex marriage part of your statement. the fact that i do not wish to marry someone of my gender should not make it impossible for anyone to do so, and everyone should be entitled to marry the person of his or her choosing. one at a time, of course. but common law marriage not so much. if you want to be married, get married.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
my second wife carries an nso certified copy of our marriage certificate for this reason. it is issued by the shariah court in the philippines and endorsed by the philippine government, the us government only recognizes my first wife; however because of this document she is still protected legally if we divorce (since we are both us citizens).
what would your response be to her?
you've stumped me. it happens. do you mean that you're married to two women at the same time? if so, your first wife is the legal wife in the united states. but you can make your second wife health care power of attorney in conjunction with, instead of, or after your first wife. in order to avoid difficulties if you're ever hospitalized, perhaps you should consider doing so.
my sister stumped me, too. she lives in san francisco and recently had a transgendered patient who had met the woman of her dreams while still legally a man. they married (legally) and then the patient completed the sex change process and became a legal woman. the two are still very much a couple, have two children and consider themselves spouses. are they? my sister has no sense of humor, and i sincerely hope that she actually believes i was holding my stomach and snorting a lot while she was railing about that situation because i was having a gas attack.
you've stumped me. it happens. do you mean that you're married to two women at the same time? if so, your first wife is the legal wife in the united states. but you can make your second wife health care power of attorney in conjunction with, instead of, or after your first wife. in order to avoid difficulties if you're ever hospitalized, perhaps you should consider doing so.
my sister stumped me, too. she lives in san francisco and recently had a transgendered patient who had met the woman of her dreams while still legally a man. they married (legally) and then the patient completed the sex change process and became a legal woman. the two are still very much a couple, have two children and consider themselves spouses. are they? my sister has no sense of humor, and i sincerely hope that she actually believes i was holding my stomach and snorting a lot while she was railing about that situation because i was having a gas attack.
yes, many men are able to be legitimately married to two women at the same time in this way; the marriage happens in a nation which recognizes both marriages legitimately and then they migrate to the usa (though in many cases the male was already a us citizen, like me).
in the usa only the first wife is given full legal rights and poas are frequently overridden by hospitals seeking only a spouse, they often do not accept poa as a substitute.
with your sister's situation i think there is no issue, the couple married while one was a dude and then the dude became a dudette (it is california) so the marriage was legal to begin with and there is (as far as i know) no law dissolving marriage if genders change.
Yes, many men are able to be legitimately married to two women at the same time in this way; the marriage happens in a nation which recognizes both marriages legitimately and then they migrate to the USA (though in many cases the male was already a US Citizen, like me).
In the USA only the first wife is given full legal rights and POAs are frequently overridden by hospitals seeking only a spouse, they often do not accept POA as a substitute.
In my state, you can put more than one person on a POA. Of course, if both POAs are present, both will have to agree, and if they don't, it reverts back to "surrogate" POA in a specific order of priority. Guardian is first, spouse is second, etc.
I guess my question is, will both your wives agree? If they don't agree, which one is more in tune with your wishes? Just using the spousal rights makes it VERY complicated in your sitch, so work it out legally yourself so that your wives aren't arguing when you're in a coma, thereby putting the onus on your health care provider who doesn't know a whit about you.
In my state, you can put more than one person on a POA. Of course, if both POAs are present, both will have to agree, and if they don't, it reverts back to "surrogate" POA in a specific order of priority. Guardian is first, spouse is second, etc.
I guess my question is, will both your wives agree? If they don't agree, which one is more in tune with your wishes? Just using the spousal rights makes it VERY complicated in your sitch, so work it out legally yourself so that your wives aren't arguing when you're in a coma, thereby putting the onus on your health care provider who doesn't know a whit about you.
Excellent points. However in my religion it would be immoral and unjust for me to have married a second wife which my first wife did not approve of. The chance of an argument in these instances would be slim to none since our religion already specifies the appropriate course of action and they would be bound to that.
However, I see your point.
If I were in the position of a nurse mediating this sort of exchange it is plausible to assert the legal status of the first wife simply to end the argument. I would be OK with that.
Ruby Vee, BSN
17 Articles; 14,051 Posts
i firmly believe that ascertaining whom the patient considers family and what information he or she wants shared should be part of every admission process. even if that were the policy, there are some situations where it just isn't possible.
if you are legally entitled to get married and have made the decision not to do so, or have not yet made the decision to do so, you are not the spouse and are not entitled to the priveleges nor subject to the responsibilities of a spouse. if the patient wants you to have protected medical information anyway, they can make that clear up front. if they are only sedated, one can assume that they will wake up and be provided with the information on lifestyle changes, etc. if they are comatose, then that information clearly does not apply at this time.
it makes me cranky when people lie to me, and it makes me tend to distrust anything they tell me in the future. if you're not the spouse, tell me that. then tell me who is the legal next of kin so that i can contact that person. believe me, we'll let you visit as much as possible and if you're not entitled to make medical decisions for the patient, you don't need to know the details of their condition. the person who is entitled to make those decisions is free to share as much with you as they choose.