Hello fellow nursing school hopefulls. I have been using AN.com since I got out of the military and started on this journey towards my RN. In the last year and a half I have seen alot of joy, anger, frustration and strife on this website. Recently I posted some information on another thread in reponse to a Community College vs Ivy League debate, needless to say that thread was shut down. However, I think my findings are relevant beyond that debate and wanted to share them with you all.
If we follow the trends of AN.com it seems that everyone and their brother has a 4.0, but thats not an accurate indication of what the competition really looks like. A 4.0 is a very rare grade to get, one bad test in one class at a bad time and bam 3.95. Based on my states data (so there is sure to be some error when taken nationally) there is only a .5% chance that a transfer student has a 4.0!
How easy is it to get a 4.0 GPA in community college? Well 1 in 200 students in my state that transfers from a community college to a 4 year school has a 4.0, so its not that easy.
Of course this includes a few assumptions as I dont have the grades for all 9,702 students that transfered, but I do know that 50 transfer scholarships based soley on GPA were handed out and the cut off was 3.93 (so I assumed all 50 were 4.0).
Also I only have the instate transfer data, I am sure a few students that transfered out of state had 4.0's. But I am sure the ratio is pretty accurate for any transfer student as it doesn't take much to ruin a 4.0.
That being said, all of you out there that are worried about not getting into school because you don't have a 4.0, don't. If my state is a decent sample, it is highly unlikely that there are multiple applicants to your school with a 4.0. Not to say that you shouldn't still try your hardest, but a slip here and there isn't the end of the world.
When I was a prenursing student on these boards, I personally couldn't stand the threads that were created about not getting a 4.0 GPA and the amount of people encouraging posters to retake all B classes. Because as competitive as nursing is today, they said anything less than a 4.0 could possibly be the determining factor why you didn't get that acceptance letter. It was pathetic! As a career changer, I didn't realize the competitiveness to get into NS. I got a C+ in Chem and didn't even think twice about retaking it. It's a good thing I didn't waste money retaking it because it never hindered me from getting into my #1 program (the only one I applied to btw).
As far as this new topic regarding CC's. I graduated with my AA degree from my CC 8 years ago, and still believe that was the best decision. During my time, going into an CC meant you weren't good enough to get into a 4-year college. This was the mentality of most parents as well. I had to work hard and the positive about my experience was it prepared me for the transfer to my 4-year University. Besides, I never had to take out a loan while at the CC. I left there debt free!
When I returned to CC to take my nursing prerequisites, the subjects weren't easy due to impart because I had tough professors who made us "think." Shame on those who look down on CC's.
Wow! How were they able to do that?! Most schools I have heard of require at least 3 out of the 4 science grades to be completed with a certain grade. But to get in to a BSN program without having taken 3 out of the 4 required classes is mind boggling! How are the admission people supposed to measure their readiness for NS?
Good Question. I know that the one colsest to me and the most competitive (UMC University of Mississippi Medical Center) Only requires Chem 1 and you are allowed to take General Biology 1 instead of Chem 2. Some of them were not allowed to take Micro without taking AP2 first, but being able to save Micro, Chem, and Stats (and speech, which at my school is REALLY difficult)for the end, saved them from risking their GPA in the selection process. Now they just have to make sure they have at least a C and pass to keep their spot. Crazy...I know, but they figured out how to work the system, I'm just mad I didn't figure it out for myself. The real insult is the school saying you must have a 2.5 to apply........they need to just say if you don't have a 3.5 don't bother applying.....but then they wouldn't get the $50 fee for each application..... 500+ applicants @ $50 a pop. You do the math. It's all a scam. :angthts:
It's very funny to see this thread get to a CC vs Ivy League school debate. Reason being that I first researched and posted the rarity of a 4.0 on a thread that was debating CC vs Ivy Leagues. Full circle right?
Anyways, I'll keep my 4.0 (cats out of the bag, I didnt want to say it because I am not one to brag as it helps no one, and that's 60 hrs cumulative with no repeats)in CC. It may have been easier to get than your 3.4 at Yale or Columbia but I think that has to do with me having a professor that is there to teach while doing research on the side, and not a researcher that is there to get published and teaches (or has a TA do it for them) on the side.
I wouldn't say it was really hard for me to get my 4.0 but I will say that no one else at my school (of 16000) that I have met (much less than 16000) that is also on the nursing path has a 4.0.
Can we please not turn this into a CC vs Uni debate, those always get locked and I put some work into my OP and would like to keep it available for anyone that is stressing their grades and wants facts instead of feelings.
Wow, kinda nice to say all that. And now you know why I have so much info on the 4.0 in pre-reqs. I set out to see if it was an accomplishment to get a 4.0 in CC pre-reqs (again everyone and their best friend "has" a "4.0" on AN.com) and it is. But out of my shaky research (I so wish I had access to more data, instead of my patchwork backyard analysis and comparison),that I originally did to self validate, I came to the conclusion that I started this thread:so few applicants have 4.0's that they are pretty much insignificant and no one should stress about not getting perfect grades.
The ones who say "don't worry about getting lower that 4.0 to get into a nursing school" still shouldn't be aware of how nursing schools get more and more competitive each day. We aren't in 2005, we are in 2011 where people get laid off and decided to go back to school and some of them pick nursing school. These people are making 4.0's to get into nursing school, and the ones who have been on the waiting list forever are the ones probably have not worried about making 4.0 when taking pre-requisites. You all need to check the cut-off on the nursing schools you want to attend before all this.
I've been to Universities and CCs. Some of my CC classes have been extremely difficult. Some have been a lot easier. I think it depends a lot on which CC and who the instructor is. I did have a biology teacher in one of my CC classes, and he said the CC only covered 3/4 of what he had to do in Uni (he was in the class to help his wife?????). Anyway, I do think the University classes expected more memorization.
Our CC program was set up that you had to take as many of the prerequisites and corequisites as possible, and then they were multiplied by the number of credit hours. Total score was your "ranking" score. Highest ranking scores got in. All of a sudden, they changed the requirements--it's been dumbed down----they are only taking the GPA for the three prerequisites, Intro to Bio and Chem, and Math into consideration. How many people, statistically, could have a 4.0 based on only three basic intro classes? Sort of my dilemma, because I have a 4.0 (real) in all of my classes, other than a Math class I took years ago, in a University. Now, it's counted as 1/3rd of my GPA. What do you think?
The ones who say "don't worry about getting lower that 4.0 to get into a nursing school" still shouldn't be aware of how nursing schools get more and more competitive each day. We aren't in 2005, we are in 2011 where people get laid off and decided to go back to school and some of them pick nursing school. These people are making 4.0's to get into nursing school, and the ones who have been on the waiting list forever are the ones probably have not worried about making 4.0 when taking pre-requisites. You all need to check the cut-off on the nursing schools you want to attend before all this.
Well I am the one that is saying not to worry about getting less than a 4.0 and I am fully aware of the competition to get into school. I have done a heck of a lot of research, thats why I posted data and not emotion. I know you are trying to help, but you are just causing anxiety as "those people who got laid off" are not all getting 4.0's, only a very small percentage of them are. Yes it is important to do well, and I am in no way saying that a student shouldn't strive for their best, just that a 3.9, 3.8, 3.7, 3.6, 3.5, 3.4, 3.3, 3.2... are still good GPA's and students earning them don't need to fell like they can't compete because they don't have a 4.0 as a 4.0 after 60 credits is as rare as hens teeth (ok, not that rare, but such a small percentage of students have a 4.0 that its not something to worry about, at all, ever, seriously!!!).
We are not in 2005. But guess what 2005 had the same fears over not getting in due to not having 4.0's. I even searched a few posts for you:
Highest ranking scores got in. All of a sudden, they changed the requirements--it's been dumbed down----they are only taking the GPA for the three prerequisites, Intro to Bio and Chem, and Math into consideration. How many people, statistically, could have a 4.0 based on only three basic intro classes? Sort of my dilemma, because I have a 4.0 (real) in all of my classes, other than a Math class I took years ago, in a University. Now, it's counted as 1/3rd of my GPA. What do you think?
Chem is a hard course, even at my "lowly" community college only 55% of those that take it pass the first time (same percentage with Intro to Bio), and there are very few A's (I was the only one in either my lab or my lecture group (50 students all together to get one and it was just barely an A)0. Not saying my 1 in 50 example holds true outside of my cohort group, but if we assume it does, and then also use the stats from my intro bio class and my math class (I have no clue what math you are addressing, but if its college alg then thats a decently hard course as well) the odds are pretty good that there are few students with a 4.0 in each of those courses.
Math 3/20 my course
Bio 5/24 my course
Chem 1/50 my courses
That's 5 out of 8000 that would have a 4.0 after taking those three classes, and I admit this is the weakest math I have ever punched out, but even if we increase the odds 100 times its still just a 5 in 80 (6.25%) chance of getting a 4.0 over those 3 classes, so I think you are still in really good shape and don't have much to worry about.
I agree. Whether you are at No-Name community college or Yale University... college algebra, organic chem, and art doesn't change. And besides, if famous universities thought that CCs weren't "up to par", why do they continue to accept transfer students' classes?
This is what I don't understand about the university I'm currently at. They put down the local community college time after time, but when it comes time to apply for clinicals a student who took all their sciences at the community college and got a 4.0 will get in over someone who has taken all their sciences at this university received a 3.6, even though it's well known that our university's A&P and chem classes are very very tough. I understand the committee does not have time to evaluate different school's courses but it is still extremely frustrating!
It looks like noone from my school posted in this thread because we do need a 4.0 to be 100% assured that we will be accepted into the nursing program. I want to say that around 230 students were accepted in 2010 and a school counselor told me that 60 of the applicants had 4.0. (the cut off that year was a 3.774) This year the cutoff was 3.88, I think that is all A and some A- is it not? Next year the cutoff should get even higher, if you can believe that.
My guess is they are 1 or 2 years away from implimenting other criteria to entry besides the GPA because they have so many applicants and people just taking classes over and over until they get the A.
Admissions was looking for the total package. A compelling essay, impressive ACT score, and an outstanding interview were key elements to getting accepted. Experience in business sales and healthcare were interesting aspects of my CV. I really love helping people and patients thank me, how awesome is that?
Super-excited about starting the program in June! :redbeathe
iPink, BSN, RN
1,414 Posts
When I was a prenursing student on these boards, I personally couldn't stand the threads that were created about not getting a 4.0 GPA and the amount of people encouraging posters to retake all B classes. Because as competitive as nursing is today, they said anything less than a 4.0 could possibly be the determining factor why you didn't get that acceptance letter. It was pathetic! As a career changer, I didn't realize the competitiveness to get into NS. I got a C+ in Chem and didn't even think twice about retaking it. It's a good thing I didn't waste money retaking it because it never hindered me from getting into my #1 program (the only one I applied to btw).
As far as this new topic regarding CC's. I graduated with my AA degree from my CC 8 years ago, and still believe that was the best decision. During my time, going into an CC meant you weren't good enough to get into a 4-year college. This was the mentality of most parents as well. I had to work hard and the positive about my experience was it prepared me for the transfer to my 4-year University. Besides, I never had to take out a loan while at the CC. I left there debt free!
When I returned to CC to take my nursing prerequisites, the subjects weren't easy due to impart because I had tough professors who made us "think." Shame on those who look down on CC's.