Wolford College Lawsuit Update

manusko · Dec 9, 2013

Wow. I didn't know it was that bad. I work with a Wolford grad and she confirmed the treatment described in this story.

loveanesthesia · Dec 10, 2013

I wonder if the anesthesiologists will keep the program open if they can't use the students to replace staff. They also are now required by the COA to achieve regional accreditation in the next couple of years which will cost them some money, so they may loose interest in the program.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Dec 11, 2013

Anesthesiologist owned CRNA program is by definition a conflict of interest and no good can come out of it. Shame on the COA for allowing it to exist.

jwk · Dec 11, 2013

Anesthesiologist owned CRNA program is by definition a conflict of interest and no good can come out of it. Shame on the COA for allowing it to exist.

Funny - this was the norm about 25 years ago. There were dozens and dozens of hospital-based CRNA certificate-only programs run all over the country by anesthesiologists.

allnurses Guide · Dec 11, 2013

Funny - this was the norm about 25 years ago. There were dozens and dozens of hospital-based CRNA certificate-only programs run all over the country by anesthesiologists.

Funny, that you are an expert in all things CRNA. Are you going to at least provide some proof this time. That is a pretty big statement to back up.

jwk · Dec 11, 2013

Funny, that you are an expert in all things CRNA. Are you going to at least provide some proof this time. That is a pretty big statement to back up.

That's because I've been doing this five times longer than you have.

CRNA schools at Georgia Baptist, The Medical Center in Columbus, GA, and Dothan, AL immediately come to mind as schools that closed in the 80's.

Are you trying to tell me that there were NOT CRNA schools that granted certificates only in the past? That was the norm, not the exception. The masters degree CRNA programs weren't a requirement until the mid 90's.

allnurses Guide · Dec 11, 2013

That's because I've been doing this five times longer than you have.
CRNA schools at Georgia Baptist, The Medical Center in Columbus, GA, and Dothan, AL immediately come to mind as schools that closed in the 80's.
Are you trying to tell me that there were NOT CRNA schools that granted certificates only in the past? That was the norm, not the exception. The masters degree CRNA programs weren't a requirement until the mid 90's.

I am stating the something I am always stating with you. You make these claims with no proof, "just take my word for it" claims. Provide proof if you are going to make blanket statements that the norm used to be that majority of CRNA schools used to be run by MDAs, if not then it is just your version of facts from a very limited perspective.

Clarification: You have been doing anesthesia as an AA longer than I have.

You have never been to CRNA school. You have never worked outside of an ACT practice. You have never worked solo. You have never provided anesthesia in the military or a deployed setting. You are incapable of working in most states or outside the US.

I work independently. I can work in any state or US territory and there are several countries that recognize CRNAs. How many countries recognize AAs? I work solo and pull solo call. I have worked in other countries in deployed settings. I can provide all types of anesthetics including regional (How many AAs do regional anesthetics or are even taught how to do regional anesthetics?).

So, you can take your experience in your closed system and I will take mine and see who is more employable, has greater income potential, who can work anywhere, and see who comes out on top.

jwk · Dec 12, 2013

I am stating the something I am always stating with you. You make these claims with no proof, "just take my word for it" claims. Provide proof if you are going to make blanket statements that the norm used to be that majority of CRNA schools used to be run by MDAs, if not then it is just your version of facts from a very limited perspective.

What proof would you like? I'm sure the AANA has a list of all the many CRNA schools that have closed over the last 30 years. You would have access to that info behind the AANA website firewall, so look it up yourself.

loveanesthesia · Dec 12, 2013

Hospital based CRNA certificate programs were the norm, but they were 'run' by CRNAs. In the 1940-60's when there were the largest numbers of these programs there were no anesthesiologists in many of the hospitals with a program. The first nurse anesthetists (1880s) were taught by surgeons, and then nurse anesthetists began teaching other nurses. These programs also didn't charge the nurses learning anesthesia, so profit was not the motive. They actually paid the nurses a stipend. They were nothing like the Wolford program.

The Wolford program is unique in that anesthesiologists own the institution and that the institution only provides education to nurse anesthetists (a single purpose institution). In this set-up it would be easy for the program director/faculty to be unduly influenced by the owners. A majority, if not all, the clinical experience is obtained at sites controlled by the anesthesiologists which own the institution. And there is convincing evidence that the students are used to replace staff, so their clinical experience can be further limited because student assignments are based on staffing needs not educational needs.

allnurses Guide · Dec 13, 2013

What proof would you like? I'm sure the AANA has a list of all the many CRNA schools that have closed over the last 30 years. You would have access to that info behind the AANA website firewall, so look it up yourself.

I am not about to go searching for information that I already know is wrong just to prove you wrong again. I like loveanesthesia's response which is consistent with the history section in nurse anesthesia textbooks. Textbooks that actually use references to back their claims up. These textbooks are available to everyone, so look it up yourself.

BCRNA · Feb 15, 2014

I can say from personal experience that my program used us as staff, and that our cases were determined by staffing needs and not my education. My program was owned solely by physicians in the 1970's. The MSN requirement in the late 1990's shifted official ownership to a university, but it was ultimately still run by physicians. Eventually all physician control was eliminated by the university (over student complaints of receiving a poor education because students were free labor and used to staff rooms). I could do almost any case at graduation, but I couldnt explain fully "why" I did certain things. Also, until recently very few CRNAs had doctorates to lead programs. The number of PhD CRNAs ( and DNPs) are skyrocketing.