will universal healthcare ( in the usa) cut RN pay?

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I been hearing this debate off and on for a long time about how if Obama gets universal healthcare to go ( if he gets elected of course)though in the US that nursing pay will be cut dramatically. I would think this has to do with the fact that we would all be working for the government and that there will no longer be competition. There are many people in my nursing class that said they will leave nursing if thats the case. I also talked to several doctors that said the same thing about medicine in general. Im just curious if anyone has some good info about this. Thanks

The plan you posted is a different plan I have been reading in another thread. I am trying to sort all of this out. I am finding it very confusing. I read about the canadian nurses in this thread. Sorry, I do not have the time to review so many to show you where, there are so many posts here. I really do have an open mind to finding a positive solution to the current health care issues. I just do not want to jump in or out because of the party that is trying to initiate it. Maybe the answers are staring me in the face...but I still do not seem to be able to sort this out.

Nope, no obvious answers for this one! You really do have to approach it with an open mind, and I'm so glad you're trying.

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I cannot believe you said that. You get torchered for 5 1/2 years and I am sure you would sign anything just to get the beatings to stop. And as for experience, that's what ADVISORS are for.

Yea, I said it. As for talking, many POWs NEVER talked. As for me talking, bring it on. It was called ages 1-17. No interragator can do half as much as my own mother did. LOL

Funny thing... My prents never gave me any papers to sign to get the beatings to stop. Hmmm... They must have forgotten them. Despite all the abuse I continued to defy them for years. ;)

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Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.
There are many countries that seem to be running things just fine - free schools, free colleges, free healthcare...the list goes on and on. So why can't we get our act together? It may not be perfect, but no one can honestly state that US public schools excell in math and reading skills.

I do believe that the US has one of the best healthcare systems, but only for ACUTE illnesses. Sure, we'll crack your chest in the ED and shuffle you off to emergency surgery to repair that tear in your aorta, and it sure is nice to have a cardiothoracic surgeon at bedside. You'll be 1:1 with an experienced CVICU nurse and have RT's, pharmacists, residents, attendings, etc all working on your case. We'll shock you, breathe for you, and medicate you with 14 drips, including epi, levophed, PRBC's etc. Lets throw in ECMO just for fun. Then when you're discharged, you'll have a nice $500,000.00+ bill in your mailbox.

However, the US SUCKS at providing preventative healthcare and managing chronic conditions. And this is evidenced by our rates of heart disease, HTN, diabetes, and infant mortality rates.

Very nicely put.

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Well maybe I can offer some insight. I was born in the US and emigrated to Canada whre I lived 20 years. I am now back in California. My Canadian mother is nurse and my sister works at the health board of BC as admin.

My wife is an american RN. ok. theres my position. I grew up in a union/medical environment.

Over all the years of observation I can assure you of this: Keep the government out of health care. Especially a socialized system. Ill detail below why... after I address my thoughts on this post:

3. Uniform benefits. One level of comprehensive care no matter what size your wallet.

Lowers that "level" of care dramatically when competitve and lucrative markets are removed from Medical/Medicinal R/D.With government capped salaries to "afford and manage this system... who would want to invest in a new drug that takes 10 years of trials or a newer technology such as what may be the next MRI machine

4. Prevention. By removing financial roadblocks, a single payer system encourages preventive care that lowers an individual's ultimate cost and pain and suffering when problems are neglected, and societal cost in the over utilization of emergency rooms or the spread of communicable diseases.

In a nation of rampant obesitey, alcoholism, drug use and smoking... this idea is ludicrous and borders on dangerous. See the movie "Gattica" Please clarify "encourage".... because honestly... when studies come out saying smoking WILL kill you and people dont quit by the millions....what are you possibly going to do to encourage anyone to get a free testicular exam?

5. Choice of physician. Most private plans restrict what doctors, other caregivers, or hospital you can use. Under a single payer system, patients have a choice, and the provider is assured a fair reimbursement.

I had a below average insuarance carrier for a few years and still had my choice. It is the already free policies that restrict access. And rightfully so. A specialized or extremely good doctor has a much higher student loan to pay off and deserves higher pay. With this gem of an idea.... all doctors would have to be paid the same. =socialism. This would also not encourage new doctors. When I was in Canada, many doctors and nurses were paid huge bonuses to emigrate with green cards or commute across the border... and still are.

6. Ending insurance industry interference with care. Caregivers and patients regain the autonomy to make decisions on what's best for a patient's health, not what's dictated by the billing department or the bean counters. No denial of coverage due to pre-existing conditions or cancellation of policies for "unreported" minor health problems.

Paid for by taxes? Unregulated spending?????? Because there will ALWAYS be a bean counter my friend... and I would prefer an open market insurance counter to and IRS or DMV style counter... wouldnt you?????????

7. Reducing administrative waste. One third of every health care dollar in California goes for paperwork, such as denying care, and profits, compared to about 3% under Medicare, a single-payer, universal system.

Reducing admin by involving the government??? Especially considering the ADDITIONAL size of government to manage the massive undertaking of adding this to the Bill of Rights.

8. Cost savings. A single payer system would produce the savings needed to cover everyone, largely by using existing resources without the waste. [/size][/i]

Cost savings ultimately reduce the quality and availability of care. It shuts down clinics, hospitals and drastically reduces the R&D sectors of medicine..... by using existing resources, you again slow research and development. This is why most of the HUGE province of BC has to fly to Vancouver for a MRI. As of 2000, the entire population of BC had 7 MRI machines in publicly funded hospitals and 6 private machines.

Would you want your wife to wait 60 days for a cancer related scan? My aunt had to quit her job and move 400 miles for chemo. after a lengthy wait.

9. Common sense budgeting. The public system sets fair reimbursements applied equally to all providers while assuring all comprehensive and appropriate health care is delivered, and uses its clout to negotiate volume discounts for prescription drugs and medical equipment.

Please name one government institution that practices "common sense budgeting" using tax dollars.

10. Public oversight. The public sets the policies and administers the system, not high priced CEOs meeting in secret and making decisions based on what inflates their compensation packages or stock wealth or company profits.

huh? Like I oversee the maintenance of our nuclear orificenal? I'm starting to think this poster is a dreamer....

My opinion:

it will raise taxes. Countries that have free health care and education pay $6.50 a gallon of gas and 14% sales tax, not to mention higher income taxes and provincial taxes

PUNISHES HEALTHY PEOPLE; it makes healthy people and families pay more of their money in taxes per month/per capita to care for irresponsible people. If I smoke do I pay more? No everyone pays the same right?

If I ride a motorcycle and my trauma risk goes up drastically do I pay more - NO. Not fair to people who dont engage in risk.

Drug users... would pay the same

sexually irresponisble people pay the same - free wart removals. ahahah becuase they didnt feel like using a condom... consider the cost of an AIDS patient.... who got it because they didnt feel like wearing a condom or changing heroin needles... should I pay for that as a monogamous person?

You would have the governmemt enacting laws in the name of "cost savings" such as helmet laws and seatbelt laws..... but how far would they go... no caffiene for kids under 7.... no sugar.... wheres the line the government stops at curing obesity.

To get back to the original topic.... UHC would lower your wages and increase your taxes. A Canadian family still pays 3-400 a month of MediCare while still having private care and with a much lower standard of care, longer waits and higher taxes. Believe it.

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main entry: ir-re-gard-less audio.gif pronunciation: \ˌir-i-ˈgärd-ləs\ function: adverb etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless date: circa 1912 nonstandard : regardless

usage irregardless originated in dialectal american speech in the early 20th century. its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. the most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." there is such a word, however. it is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. http://www.merriam-webster.com

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main entry: ir-re-gard-less audio.gif pronunciation: \ˌir-i-ˈgärd-ləs\ function: adverb etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless date: circa 1912 nonstandard : regardless

usage irregardless originated in dialectal american speech in the early 20th century. its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. the most frequently repeated remark about it is that “there is no such word.” there is such a word, however. it is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. http://www.merriam-webster.com

:) it's improper or nonstandard english.

it's ok if you would like to dumb down the english language but everyone can point/click/copy/paste.

irregardless is improper english. it also highlights the users poor grasp of english. use it if you want.

btw - ain't is in the dictionary too. it's still incorrect.

when you see nonstandard in a dictionary entry it means wrong.

dictionaries list all words in use, regardless of their correctness. the dictionary is not the master of proper language. it is the master of used language.

:smokin:

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Specializes in Future ICU nurse.
Yea, I said it. As for talking, many POWs NEVER talked. As for me talking, bring it on. It was called ages 1-17. No interragator can do half as much as my own mother did. LOL

Funny thing... My prents never gave me any papers to sign to get the beatings to stop. Hmmm... They must have forgotten them. Despite all the abuse I continued to defy them for years. ;)

If you are going to correct someone on the use of proper English, you should consider using it. Proper English includes using correct spelling.

interragator= wrong interrogator= correct

Also, it is your right to dislike the policies McCain stands for. Attack his policies, not the man. Until you have endured the same torture as John McCain, you cannot compare anything you have experienced to him.

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Specializes in Future ICU nurse.
Ohh.. Jolie.. I am very self-sufficient at this point in my life.. I do not get any tax credits for children or loans. Those of you that claim children on your returns, I could say, are mooching off me.. Those of you taking deductions for interest on home or school loans, I could say are 'mooching', as well.

I could easily argue the point about self-sufficiency.. but the people.. especially nurses.. who cannot hold out a helping hand to those in need, need to quit practicing in a field of helping others. Quit your hypocrisy!:nurse:

Those people who have children and clain them on taxes probably pay more taxes thern you. They pay taxes on everything they buy for their children. That is why they get a deduction. Same with taxes on homes. Just because I am conservative and do not want to pay for others does not mean I don't care. I give to private organizations because the are more efficient than government. I also believe that government healthcare would harm more than those helped.

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Oh great one who hates incorrect language- I never use the word. I just wanted you to see that it is a word. You must be OCD or have a very boring life if you feel the need to obsess over a listserv. Perhaps you should be an English teacher instead of a nurse?:down:

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Ugh. So quick to anger today.

Nevermind...

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Specializes in Future ICU nurse.
Actually, when you can speed type on a Blackberry perfectly then come speak to me.

As to rights. I can and will talk about the man.

As to what he's been through. Not only did other POW's NOT talk there are things in life WAY worse than physical torture. He has no permanent damage so how badly did they torture him. Where is his PTSD? Exactly.

You shouldn't chide people until you are in a position to do so. :) Especially vets that ACTUALLY HAVE defended the rights you like to bring up.

Yours so very truly,

The Annoyed Vet that actually knows and has served with and under POWs.

I did not chide you. I just felt if you chose to correct someone (ie. cxg174 about irreguardless) then you opened yourself up to criticism. If you cannot take, don't dish it out. As for you defending my rights, thanks but I defended them myself. Your not the only one who has been in the military.

Right back at you

Sincerly,

DAUGHTER OF A VIETNAM POW

P.S. I think I might understand it a little better than you.

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I did not chide you. I just felt if you chose to correct someone (ie. cxg174 about irreguardless) then you opened yourself up to criticism.

First off. There is a huge difference between a TYPO and using an inappropriate word.

Second of all he used the word irregardless NOT irreguardless.

See what I mean? :D

If you cannot take, don't dish it out. As for you defending my rights, thanks but I defended them myself. Your not the only one who has been in the military.

So you served your full time AND were let out during the Stop Loss? Ok, if you say so...

DAUGHTER OF A VIETNAM POW

P.S. I think I might understand it a little better than you.

So your father being a POW makes you an expert? Let me ask a question. Have you ever been tortured. Physically, psychologically or emotionally tortured and abused??? By a police officer, military captor, significant other or parent? Torture is torture... If you experienced that you would know...

Nuff Said...

Let's get back on topic... :down:

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