Will RN's, LPN's be affected by the new OT rules?

WyomingRN · Nov 22, 2003

I'm all for this bill. Hopefully they will cut out all OT for RNs. Maybe - just maybe, it will wake them up to the fact that they ARE professionals and thus, should start conducting themselves as such to include, but not limited to, charging professional compensation rates and taking charge of their careers as do most accountants, veterinarians, etc.

As an autonomous professional, I set my own rate of $50.00 per hour. Not only do I not need OT, but only have to work 6-8 days a month. I can take more or less shifts as I want. I pay for my own benefits rather than settling for what some facility thinks I need; but then I can afford this because I charge a reasonable rate for my Professional services.

Just because most nurses are female, doesn't mean that they have to settle for less than non-professional compensation.

If you charged a professional rate of $40.00 - $55.00 per hour, would you be able to live off of 12 eight hour shifts a month? Why would you need OT?

They says nurses - at least RNs - are professionals, just show them how professional in your invoice.

Speculating · Nov 22, 2003

Originally posted by WyomingRN
I'm all for this bill. Hopefully they will cut out all OT for RNs. Maybe - just maybe, it will wake them up to the fact that they ARE professionals and thus, should start conducting themselves as such to include, but not limited to, charging professional compensation rates and taking charge of their careers as do most accountants, veterinarians, etc.

As an autonomous professional, I set my own rate of $50.00 per hour. Not only do I not need OT, but only have to work 6-8 days a month. I can take more or less shifts as I want. I pay for my own benefits rather than settling for what some facility thinks I need; but then I can afford this because I charge a reasonable rate for my Professional services.

Just because most nurses are female, doesn't mean that they have to settle for less than non-professional compensation.

If you charged a professional rate of $40.00 - $55.00 per hour, would you be able to live off of 12 eight hour shifts a month? Why would you need OT?

They says nurses - at least RNs - are professionals, just show them how professional in your invoice.

I'm happy for you for what ever it is you have going on there. I don't know anywhere that you can turn a bill in at the end of the month otherwise I would be right on it. Frankly, Wyoming I'm a little blown away at your reply. Taking away OT pay? It doesn't matter to me whether I'm included or excluded as an RN this isn't right. Honestly I will just quit working over 40 hours, but for those poor people out there all ready working for peanuts busting their butts to make ends meet it amounts to rape as far as I'm concerned. They've all ready raised the retirement age people. The next step is to have a 50 hour regular work week. Most people in strenuous jobs and older folks won't be able to handle that. Then if they make a fifty hour regular work week most people won't work it and if they don't they will be able to strip us of our benefits - LEGALLY! :nono: Whose the brilliant person who thought up this whooper so we can take them out back and stone them!!!

SnowymtnRN · Nov 22, 2003

Originally posted by WyomingRN
I'm all for this bill. Hopefully they will cut out all OT for RNs. Maybe - just maybe, it will wake them up to the fact that they ARE professionals and thus, should start conducting themselves as such to include, but not limited to, charging professional compensation rates and taking charge of their careers as do most accountants, veterinarians, etc.

As an autonomous professional, I set my own rate of $50.00 per hour. Not only do I not need OT, but only have to work 6-8 days a month. I can take more or less shifts as I want. I pay for my own benefits rather than settling for what some facility thinks I need; but then I can afford this because I charge a reasonable rate for my Professional services.

Just because most nurses are female, doesn't mean that they have to settle for less than non-professional compensation.

If you charged a professional rate of $40.00 - $55.00 per hour, would you be able to live off of 12 eight hour shifts a month? Why would you need OT?

They says nurses - at least RNs - are professionals, just show them how professional in your invoice.

This is quite interesting Wyoming. We are also in Wyoming, and i know of nowhere that this can be done, unless you are staffing at an agency. so far, the agencies we've inquired about don't pay anywhere near that much. And my DH alone has an extensive resume with impeccable refereneces in ICU/ER/Med surg.

Unfortunatly, we've done the staffing route too, and its not regular work. But we have 2 (almost 3!) children and need to KNOW what we are getting paid every month. Staffing/agency work is great, and we would drive great distances to do it for the right amount of money, which of course in WY is going to be a requirement i'm sure! :chuckle

Honestly, the only thing this OT rule can do IMO is make the nursing shortage even worse in certain areas. Last year my husband alone made over 50K, and had he kept staffing would have exceeded the 65K range. But IMO if you are working the hours, you get the pay. What will happen is hospitals will start putting nurses on "salary" and then add hours without compensation.

Just my 2 cents. Not trying to debate with your or anything, just thought your POV was very interesting. If you don't mind, could you possibly PM me any agencies/staffing networks that you recommend for the WY area? We always prefer word of mouth over advertisements anyway!

ideastoday · Nov 22, 2003

Clearly, this affect RNs directly, along with a lot of other people in healthcare. If you make more than $65k, your employer will no longer be required to pay you overtime, period. Also, nurses will almost certainly be classified as "learned professionals", and therefore also disqualified. I don't see any way nurses' overtime will survive these two tests.

The hospital you work for could voluntarily choose to continue paying overtime at 50% above the normal rate as they did before, or if you have a union they might be required to under the union agreement. Otherwise, forget about it.

The article at the link below has good information.

http://www.hpae.org/nursemobilizeforotpay062503.htm

Frankly this is an outrage and needs to be stopped.

You can see the Department of Labor proposed rule changes and contact information here:

http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/fedreg/proposed/2003033101.htm

Greg

911fltrn · Nov 22, 2003

They will pay overtime or no nurses will come in. Doesnt really matter what they do. Show us the money should be our new motto god know its us they make all of their money off of.

WyomingRN · Nov 23, 2003

"I don't know anywhere that you can turn a bill in at the end of the month otherwise I would be right on it."

Speculating - The difference is that you are an employee and I am not. I am an autonomous RN that runs her own nursing servicing business. Rather than working for an agency or a facility, I work for my own nursing service business. I can charge a few dollars less than the agencies and thus, save the facility money. On the other side of the coin, most of the money also goes into my pocket - rather than an agency's pocket. All you - or any other RN for that matter - has to do is start working for yourself - become autonomous. It is estimated that more than a thousand have done just that in 2003. You might want to check out my post (#79) under "Nurses in Other Profession" and the post (#6) under "Should I stay or should I go?". As an autonomous professional, overtime would be inappropriate. Would you want an accountant to charge you overtime just because your taxes were the last one he worked on that day and he had already worked his "8" hours?

Speculating · Nov 23, 2003

Thanks for clarifying and the heads up Wyoming. I'll certainly put it to good use.

SnowymtnRN · Nov 24, 2003

The Bush Administration's new regulation would establish three tiers based on salary level and job duties. Under the new rules:
--Workers who earn a salary of $65,000 or more would get no overtime pay regardless of their job duties.
--Salaried workers who make more than $22,100 per year and perform work that is of "substantial importance" or requires high-level training would not be eligible for overtime pay.
--Worker who makes less than $22,100 would be eligible for overtime pay regardless of their job description.

So this doesn't mean they aren't required to pay OT? Or they

can, but can choose not to? this will do NOTHING but screw nurses.

gauge14iv, MSN, APRN, NP · Nov 24, 2003

My understanding of it is that this bill also allows an employer to say "If you dont work 50 or 60 hours a week, you can't work here" In addition to not having to pay the pvertime.

What I see happening in that case is that nurses will quit - then to keep nurses the facility will have to hire agency or independants like Wyoming. They won't be employees of the facility and the facility will have very little control over what they are getting and what the schedule will look like in a few days or weeks or a month. Over time, Nurses will likely become less specialized and more generalized and this will not be to the benefit of the facility or to patients. There will be no hospital based clinical practice committees and such - who will bother making that kind of a commitment to a hospital when the hospital has no committment to them?

This could all get very interesting and nurses could become a very expensive commodity!!! Good for us, not so good for hospitals and patients I think.

Patients should be very afraid.

Administrators should get ready to do bed baths, empty bedpans and feed babies when their nurses walk.

Nurses should get ready to stick together and realize that if they are going to treat us as independant professionals then we better be ready to act like one!

In reality, what will likely happen, is a few facilities or a large chain of facilities will try taking away OT and requiring people to work more hours, it will be ugly, their nurses will leave and go to the facilities that are still paying but not requiring overtime (Where there will now be no OT available because they are so well staffed) and the hospital that lost all their staff will have to reinstate payment of OT and a reasonable number of hours, and spend years rebuilding the staff they lost by raising hourly pay rates and hiring incentives...

Eh

Fun! Lets watch!

MrsWampthang, BSN, RN · Nov 24, 2003

The profession I can really see this affecting badly is firefighting. Those folks are on salary and right now get paid OT; I'm not sure how it works but I do know they get OT. I can see Fire Departments across the country trying to enforce this. Course, I think since there are unions in the FDs maybe that will save them from this silliness. Still, it is sad to think that people that put their lives on the line may be affected too.

Just another view, Pam:o

Mr_D · Nov 24, 2003

Originally posted by 911fltrn
They will pay overtime or no nurses will come in. Doesnt really matter what they do. Show us the money should be our new motto god know its us they make all of their money off of.

I'm reading that Nurses can be charged with "Patient Abandonment" for refusing to come in. Which of course opens the doors to stripping your RN licensure. I wonder how many hospitals would play hardball like that? It seems like it would be a losing strategy b/c nurses would simple comply their mandatory OT, and look for another job at the same time. Then again, if a majority of hospitals take this approach, then there's little room to wiggle.

It does appear agency nursing has a chance to grow now b/c they will offer something that can't easily be taken away -- control over schedule.