Will never write order again w/o permission from doc

Nurses General Nursing

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This RN is one of those people that you look forward to your shift when you know she is working. Great nurse, friendly and doesn't mind helping out if you need it.

A supervisor let it slip this nurse couldn't be the only RN on the floor. Of course, rumors started about narc diversion and the like. I reasoned that she wouldn't even be on the floor if this was the case, but people like to believe the worst.

I decided to look it up on my state's BON site. This nurse was working on the floor of a local hospital a year ago. One of her patients was on a vent and the family had decided to turn it off. The physician wrote an order that stated "remove life support after the patient's daughter arives at 1:00". The daughter arrived earlier than planned, said her goodbyes and after discussion with the rest of the family, told the nurse they were ready. The nurse found the RT and told her to go ahead and remove life support. The RT refused, stating that the order said 1:00 and she was waiting until then. The record didn't say how early it was, but I'm guessing it must have been a few hours since it did say the family did not want to wait until one. The nurse wrote an order that stated "ok to terminate life support now". When asked why she would write this, she said that this particular doc was one that she knew well, and every time she called to ask him for something he would say something along the lines of "whatever you want or whatever you want to do". So she felt comfortable writing the order. They went ahead and terminated life support and the patient died a few minutes later.

The record did not say who reported her to the board. It stated that initially, the BON wanted to suspend her license for two years, but settled on probation for two years. The stipulations include a minimum amount of hours to work every month, her employer has to send a letter to the BON every three months stating how she is performing, she can have only one job at a time and cannot work home health, clinic etc - has to be hospital. Another RN has to be her direct supervisor, but doesn't have to be on the same floor as she as long as the RN is in the building (which isn't what my supervisor said). The remedial education is significant and she has to pay for all of it. She went to the hearing without an attorney. Maybe the reprimand wouldn't be this harsh if she would have had one?

After finding out about this, I will never do this again and I will discourage my fellow nurses from it. The only times I've ever written orders like this are for things like air mattresses, and recently, for tele when my patient was on a drip and no monitor for three days (yeah, another story all together:madface:). I can confidently say I will never do this again. It scares the you-know-what out of me to even think about it.

Just wanted to share....

Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Well my interpretation based on how the original poster described it is that daughter was arriving at 1 and it was okay to terminate after that.

What if the daughter had showed up late, would anyone interpret it was okay to terminate at 1 still? I doubt anyone would.

I'm not saying I disagree with anyone about calling the doc to do it early but playing devil's advocate if the daughter showed up early and came out and said okay, then the whole time thing is just semantics.

The focus of the order was daughter was arriving at 1 so not before daughter arrived.

The problem - I see as not a situation where that would be a mitigating factor because there are quite a few potential pitfalls along the path . . .and being wrong about that can never be undone.

We don't know this particular doctor, but in general you would need to assume first, the doctor clearly understood and related what the daughter communicated to him vis a vis family arriving, who and when. Doctors can get distracted and mis-hear or mis-write things they think they heard. Calling the doc first might just be the redundancy that prevents a huge error from happening.

It is not all that unusual for families to be in a turmoil when there is impending death, bringing all sorts of brewing insanity up to a boil. That is likely to happen no matter what time the life support is withdrawn, but that specific a time could factor into the behavior of some of the patient's family members.

Imagine if an estranged child makes a final decision to say their goodbyes and makes a mad dash to get there by 1pm only to find another family member had that done 2 hours prior? Nothing is worth that risk.

Was the intent of the order to have that patient die at a particular time, or was the intent of it to have family pay their final respects beforehand? I can't imagine anyone would look at their watch and say --" it's 3pm and the family is a no-show? Let's just go ahead and turn it off now".

I have never in 32 years ever written an order that I didn't ask the MD myself about.

Neither have I - I feel like a dinosaur. :)

I know that people can be allergic to just about anything...google "allergic to tylenol" and you get some hits. Yes, it is rare. However, if I write an order under a doctor's name without actually talking to him/her, I am guessing most will not cosign my verbal order for tylenol after the pt had a rxn to it.

Ironically, just last night, I had a Pt with a tylenol allergy listed! sadly, I forgot to ask what her symptoms were; but yeah, I'll google "tylenol allergy" and get some info, thanks.

sidebar: I once saw an "epinephrine allergy" listed. The Pt's symptoms? "Makes my pulse go up." (??!! yeah, sure, when the Pt codes and the MD orders epi, we'll have to say, "Sorry, sir, the Pt's allergic to epinephrine...makes his pulse go up, doggone it.")

I know that people can be allergic to just about anything...google "allergic to tylenol" and you get some hits. Yes, it is rare. However, if I write an order under a doctor's name without actually talking to him/her, I am guessing most will not cosign my verbal order for tylenol after the pt had a rxn to it.

Wow... I don't write orders without talking to the dr first, no matter how late. I mean, its not really that bad to call anyway. Just make sure you're prepared "Sorry for waking you up, pt has a temp of 101.9 but nothing PRN, can I please have some tylenol PO for that?" or SOMETHING. Keep it short and sweet and usually they don't get mad =)

doesn't sound bad, thank you. :)

Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
sidebar: I once saw an "epinephrine allergy" listed. The Pt's symptoms? "Makes my pulse go up." (??!! yeah, sure, when the Pt codes and the MD orders epi, we'll have to say, "Sorry, sir, the Pt's allergic to epinephrine...makes his pulse go up, doggone it.")

(getting way off topic here, sorry) I had a pt. that was "allergic" to Novocaine. The reaction? Numbness! I just hate it when I can't feel the dentist drilling into my tooth.

(getting way off topic here, sorry) I had a pt. that was "allergic" to Novocaine. The reaction? Numbness! I just hate it when I can't feel the dentist drilling into my tooth.

weirdness. do people think through these statements before they make them / write them on medical forms? :confused:

Specializes in stepdown RN.

Just had a big blow up at the hospital I work at. A nurse got in trouble for writing a tylenol order. Doctor ALWAYS signed it before. I guess he was in a bad mood that day and was questioning why order was written. Now we were all told even a tylenol,mom, colace etc order without an order is subject to disciplinary action including firing and reporting us to the board!! The doc shot himself in the foot on that one when he is now getting phone calls in the middle of the night about things we would normally take care of ourselves. Yes I know an order is an order no matter what it is but still its all because of a tylenol order and the nurse was being nice to not call him at 3am.

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.
But really, who reported this nurse?

I'd put my money on the RT

Specializes in OB-Gyn/Primary Care/Ambulatory Leadership.

I think the problem stems with primadonna private docs who get ***** and scream at nurses when they get a call at 2am. If hospitals held docs to the standard that verbal abuse is never okay, then nurses wouldn't be afraid to call them at 2am. BTDT. Now I work at a teaching hospital where we have residents and deck docs there at all times, and nobody's going to chew you a new ***hole for calling them in the middle of the night.

Just had a big blow up at the hospital I work at. A nurse got in trouble for writing a tylenol order. Doctor ALWAYS signed it before. I guess he was in a bad mood that day and was questioning why order was written. Now we were all told even a tylenol,mom, colace etc order without an order is subject to disciplinary action including firing and reporting us to the board!! The doc shot himself in the foot on that one when he is now getting phone calls in the middle of the night about things we would normally take care of ourselves. Yes I know an order is an order no matter what it is but still its all because of a tylenol order and the nurse was being nice to not call him at 3am.

Yeah, he's probably regretting that one now; unless he had a genuine reason for not wanting tylenol, like the Pt had liver disease or something; plus, all the other MD's getting called up in the night for tylenol and MOM are going to hate him, too!

I don't like it when nursing administration goes hyper about little things and threatens us. Like, dude, can we concentrate on the big issues here?

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