I work on a busy telemetry floor in Florida. Most days/nights (I work both) I am running around like crazy trying to get everything done with minimal time to take a break, go to lunch, or go to the bathroom. Pay is not that great and I feel as if upper mgmt continuously send patients that are not appropriate acuity for our floor. We are staffed 5:1 and have rapid responses/codes daily and are always shipping people off to the ICU for higher level of care. Also, our charge nurse usually takes patients and we are usually also short staffed a tech leaving the individual RN to fend for ourselves.
I know it is like this everywhere (at least on telemetry units)....sooooo why aren't nurses banding together to stop this? Why is it such taboo to talk about starting a nursing union in Florida (or in other states for that matter)?
In a private conversation with my ANM (who I have grown close with through the ups and downs of our crazy floor), I asked her this same question. She totally freaked out on me and refused to even say the word "union" out loud suggesting that if someone overheard us, we could be fired on the spot. What? Seriously? I'm not saying that unionization is the absolute answer but maybe blending some of their ideas with our own to make for a better workplace for all. Why are we not allowed to even talk about it out loud? This isn't a dictatorship. And nurses continue to put up with this. They say things like, "It is what it is." Actually, usually, it is what it shouldn't be.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. As a disclaimer, I am very thankful to have a job and I do enjoy taking care of my patients. Have a great day!
I'm not sure whether to be comforted or crushed that the same thing's happening here as everywhere. I certainly think a significant part of why our work and value aren't recognised is gendered, on both sides - that "poor management had nasty things said about it" comment was chilling, and the idea that girls need to be nice and liked is disturbingly deeply sown.
This is compounded by the way we and our work are perceived. TPTB see a lot of what we do as "caring about" (rather than "caring for") as though there's some kind of X-chromosome that doesn't really need to be compensated for performing body work and that manages to avoid seeing the skill involved. It's not just them, though - too few of our patients recognise the level of sophisticated care we deliver, and entirely too few of our non-nursing colleagues do.
What disturbs me most, though, is how often I've been asked by other nurses why why I don't study medicine, because I'm "so smart" or "wasted as a nurse" - I used to dismiss it, but now I call them on it, asking why nurses can't be intelligent, skilled, adept and teach. If this idea that one can be too intelligent, educated, interested, whatever to nurse is endemic, what chance do we have convincing those outside the profession that these are essential, integral parts of the role?
In Victoria (Australia, as we seem to have lost national flags in the AN upgrade), we're three months into what looks a lot like a six month campaign, mostly to retain conditions we won in 2000 and have fought to keep in 2001, 2004 and 2007. The state government gave the police force a raise and improved conditions after lengthy negotiations but limited industrial action; our battle has been met with contempt, a whole lot of legal action, and assurances from the Health Minister that nurses won't leave the system because "they'll want to focus on their patients instead."
I hope he's wrong, and that my colleagues will have the strength, will, tenacity, courage and unity to stand together and resign en masse - the only card we have left to play. Otherwise we're looking at a blow to the public health system from which it will take over a decade to recover.
Unfortunately, there are still too many women who go into nursing because they have a pathological need to, "help". This mentality goes right along with the, "Martry Mary", mentality ,that permeates nursing.
Unions are the ONLY thing that will save the nursing profession. We are seeing an unpredented rise in hospitals, doctors' offices, and clinics, who are using unsikilled, minimally educated individuals to do the professional work of nurses.
This will continue until they have reduced the profession of nursing to nothing more than a bunch of "tasks, that can be done by a HS dropout.
Nursing contracts that refuse to allow our professional practice to be encroached on, is all that will save our professional practice. It is up for sale to the highest bidder.
JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, RN,BSN,CCRN
Somewhere in the PACNW
How depressing. I suppose as a newbie with an outsider viewpoint what's going on is as more people don't have insurance (read aren't getting profitable elective surgeries), as health care costs rise, and as fewer wage-earners are paying taxes (either because of job loss or a lower paying job), extensions of tax reductions on the big players, etc. CMS has to cut back given this large role of tax and of course the private insurers are happy to follow. I do believe many healthcare organizations are truly struggling and in these circumstances there has to be an accelerated, incentive based move to economies of scale which we see before us in the form of ARRA Hitech (Meaningful Use), consolidations and buyouts of large health networks on smaller ones, formerly independent practices aligning with hospitals and more.
I also believe that people who invest in their education and in being the best have a right to expect a return on that investment and reasonable working conditions...and that the patient (er, no, the "customer"!) has a right to safe, decent nursing care in an environment where s/he will not leave with a HA nosocomial present or otherwise an inoptimal outcome. After all, without all this what in the heck is the point? ("First, do no harm").
Unfortunately we live in a tough time where near all the courts in the country are rigged with anti-labor appointees from two terms of Reagan and three of Bush. Nonstop emotionally appealing talking points have convinced people (despite all evidence to the contrary) that their interests as wage-earners are the same as the uberwealthy and people are just too busy trying to survive to really invest the time and effort to cut through all the bull. Yet I sense ( as opposed to know) that many people DO know what's going on though but are really really afraid. You get punished, ridiculed and sometimes worse for sticking up for the working people in this country. Recently what was predominantly unemployed working Americans and educated college graduates unable to find jobs were dismissed by near the entire media as a bunch of "dirty hippies".
With devastatingly high unemployment for now a decade, people are really over the barrel. Nobody wants a low paying, back breaking job with poor working conditions but nobody wants their kids to go without dinner and a roof over their heads. Unfortunately it has in fact come down to that. Employers are ruthless in these times.
Maybe this is why some people feel they are re-fighting the same battles over and over and it's taking all they have to hold onto modest gains/improvements.
Incidentally other unions have also taken devastating losses, needless to say workers in Wisconsin and Ohio, from teachers to police officers but also including ALPA and some of the pilots union. I think it's easier for pilots because the idea of a horrific aviation accident resulting form unsafe conditions, tired pilots or unqualified ones is simpler for people to understand than how a substandard nurse could do something to give them a life-threatening infection.
So now that we've established the problem and many of the reasons for it ranging from big monied propoganda mills to the psychology of nurses, to an economy increasingly at odds with favorable labor negotiating, I suppose the million dollar question is what to do about it...
Anyway, just surfing and throwing in my own NY .02.
Men are not so into the sacrificial thing that so many nurses seem to have bought into. Accepting poor wages and absurd working conditions "for the good of the patients" - even though management may be making fat salaries and/or big profits while cutting the nursing care and the nurses wages. What's really for the good of the patients is to demand decent staffing levels and good enough wages to draw top people into the field.
Back when we were negotiating our first contract I was on the bargaining team and I was the one who wrote most of the bargaining updates we sent out to nurses. The lawyer who was negotiating for management was a (several words I can't use here) and they were doing everything possible to prevent us getting a contract at all, let alone a decent one. So that information was in the updates. At one of our membership meetings a nurse got up and said "I don't like to read those updates because sometimes they say things about managment that aren't very nice". I remember thinking "I'll bet you'd never hear that at a meeting of a mostly male union".
Very well put. Recently on my floor, we were discussing the use of Earned Time with a low census when we began Thanksgiving full and ended up discharging 5 or so patients so were 1-2 nurses overstaffed at that point. No one wanted to leave to go sit at home alone on a holiday that we already didn't make plans for because we were supposed to work. One of my colleagues (whose family is several states away) and I were talking about how ridiculous it is that TPTB get mad at us if we don't want to take ET on the holiday that we planned to work. Then someone else chimed in "I always say yes because I feel bad and I want to help them with their budget problems." I thought, "are you kidding?" This is a hospital that made over $50 million in profit-equivalent last year, has over $2 billion in stock and bond holdings and is currently spending money to change its name and build a brand new building all while the CEO is taking home a 6 figure BONUS on top of a salary in the millions. This "we need to cut 30 million from the budget by tomorrow to stay afloat" is total crap and, yet, people just believe what they say. Aren't nurses supposed to think critically?
Women have this self-sacrificing need to "help". Of course all nurses want to help people but what I'm saying is, this is my JOB, I'm not a volunteer and if you schedule me for too many hours, you're going to hear about it. One of my colleagues once told me that she ends up scheduled for extra hours on every schedule but she doesn't tell them and therefore doesn't end up getting paid for it because she doesn't want to have to argue with them. Ridiculous. I'm also pretty sure they know the ones who won't complain and so they do it to them on purpose.
One of my colleagues once told me that she ends up scheduled for extra hours on every schedule but she doesn't tell them and therefore doesn't end up getting paid for it because she doesn't want to have to argue with them. Ridiculous. I'm also pretty sure they know the ones who won't complain and so they do it to them on purpose.
Excuse me ! , are you saying your colleague is working greater hours than she is employed for and not recording her hours correctly ?.If so were I work falsification of time cards ( or any other manner of recording your worked hours ) is a terminable offence upon its first occurence !.So if for some reason your colleagues inaccurate time keeping came to the attention of the local enforcement agency , your employer would have grounds to and probably no hesitation in firing her .Even if we take this little indiscretion out of the equation , if she is working off the clock she is not covered by the hospitals liability coverage , workmans comp. or anyother insurance ..
I'm sorry but I am totally flabergasted by your colleagues action , because she is putting rhe needs of her employer over her needs and is obviously oblivious to the potential disaster that could befall her and her family .If whilst working off the clock , something happens to a patient , then their family sues , she will be on her own ( hopefully she has her own Liability Insurance )and it will be her and her family that faces the consequences .
We don't fill out time cards. In a system designed to screw us, our hospital considers us "salaried" and we get paid for our biweekly hours every pay period regardless of what we actually work. So, for example, I work 36 hrs/week. This week I am scheduled for 44 hours and next week for 40 hrs but on my next check which will include both of these weeks I will only be paid for 72 hours. In their mind, it works out to my advantage because the following 2 weeks I will work 36 and then 24 hours but still be paid for 72. In reality, if they did things appropriately, they would have to pay me overtime this week and I'd end up getting paid for all the lunches I work through and all the times I've stayed late.
So in the case of the person I'm talking about, she works 36 hrs/week and all that means to my hospital is that she needs to work 216 hours in a 6 week work period. They'd put her on an extra 4 or 8 or 12 somewhere and hope that she doesn't notice. I think they do this all the time to people who they think won't notice or won't say anything. They know better than to do it with me.
THIS is just one of the reasons I want to unionize.
I don't know wage and hour law inside out or anything, but I am just sure that the staffing/pay practices you describe are in fact illegal. A phone call to the state department of labor might be a start or, if you live in one of the Southern states where the state government thinks workers have no rights, going to the US department of Labor might be worthwhile.
I don't know wage and hour law inside out or anything, but I am just sure that the staffing/pay practices you describe are in fact illegal. A phone call to the state department of labor might be a start or, if you live in one of the Southern states where the state government thinks workers have no rights, going to the US department of Labor might be worthwhile.
You'll find a fair bit on info there on overtime and also how to contact them. This just sounds like absolute garbage to me.
I am fairly certain said practices are illegal as well. I had this conversation with them a few months back when I was informed that I would not be paid for the extra hour I worked on Nov 5th (the "fall back" night) because I was a "salaried, exempt employee". RNs can be considered "exempt" if they are paid on a salary basis and this is precisely WHY my employer came up with this backwards system. Mind you, if I ever work less than my 36 hrs/week, I get CHASED to make up those other hours and I "owe" them these hours. I pointed out to them in a "meeting" they asked me to attend that this does not happen with salaried employees because their hours don't matter/there's no such thing as "owing" hours and their response was basically "this is the way we do things here."
I have gone as far as to speak with an investigator at the Attorney General's office in my state who informed me that they could/would file a criminal complaint against my employer but that they couldn't protect my job. I do not have a union and am therefore an "at-will" employee. They can fire me because I have blue eyes if they feel like it. I don't particularly want to work for them anymore but I am stuck until at least September because of student loan obligations and I need a steady income and health insurance. Several of my colleagues and I have met with the nurses' union in our state... In my heart I just feel like if I leave because of their bs, I'm giving them the message that they can continue with it and force all those who disagree out the door and I strongly believe that one needs to fight for the change that one believes is necessary.
KelRN Do you have whistleblower laws in your state or if your employer is a large corporation do they have a corporate ethics department ( it is in corporates best interest to know this timekeeping practice because it presents a large liability of back pay to previous emloyees ).As you have already stuck your neck out this far , I wonder if it is the lesser of evils for you to report this behaviour , as I am sure your days are already numbered at this employer ( even if they don't fire you , they will probably slow your advancement or make life so uncomfortable you will leave ).Sorry to be such a pessimist ,but whatever happens as soon as you can look for another employer who is hopefully more ethical .
As to those who are antiunion , I would love to hear how you think this problem can be solved other than by collective action ?
I am fairly certain said practices are illegal as well. I had this conversation with them a few months back when I was informed that I would not be paid for the extra hour I worked on Nov 5th (the "fall back" night) because I was a "salaried, exempt employee". RNs can be considered "exempt" if they are paid on a salary basis and this is precisely WHY my employer came up with this backwards system. Mind you, if I ever work less than my 36 hrs/week, I get CHASED to make up those other hours and I "owe" them these hours. I pointed out to them in a "meeting" they asked me to attend that this does not happen with salaried employees because their hours don't matter/there's no such thing as "owing" hours and their response was basically "this is the way we do things here."
I have gone as far as to speak with an investigator at the Attorney General's office in my state who informed me that they could/would file a criminal complaint against my employer but that they couldn't protect my job. I do not have a union and am therefore an "at-will" employee. They can fire me because I have blue eyes if they feel like it. I don't particularly want to work for them anymore but I am stuck until at least September because of student loan obligations and I need a steady income and health insurance. Several of my colleagues and I have met with the nurses' union in our state... In my heart I just feel like if I leave because of their bs, I'm giving them the message that they can continue with it and force all those who disagree out the door and I strongly believe that one needs to fight for the change that one believes is necessary.
I really like your spirit. I have the strong impression - again, I'm not an expert - that there are rules on who can be classified as exempt and that staff nurses are not generally one of them. But it's a subject loaded with grey areas. Back in the 90s we got new corporate oriented, bottom-line oriented management at our place. Lots of things changed for the worse. Their constantly repeated mantra was "if you don't like it, so somewhere else". Some did, but some of us stayed and organized instead. Now we're still here and all that management team are gone - every last one of the top level people that forced us to unionize. Outlast 'em.
I really like your spirit. I have the strong impression - again, I'm not an expert - that there are rules on who can be classified as exempt and that staff nurses are not generally one of them. But it's a subject loaded with grey areas. Back in the 90s we got new corporate oriented, bottom-line oriented management at our place. Lots of things changed for the worse. Their constantly repeated mantra was "if you don't like it, so somewhere else". Some did, but some of us stayed and organized instead. Now we're still here and all that management team are gone - every last one of the top level people that forced us to unionize. Outlast 'em.
That's my goal at this point and my institution has the same mantra as the place you describe. "This is how we do things here, we're not going to change the way we do things and if you don't like it, you can leave." I am slowly collecting people who are interested in unionizing... so many people want to but didn't want to be the one to actually reach out to the union/make the first contact. Others don't know enough about it/have believed management's lies for too long.
How depressing. I suppose as a newbie with an outsider viewpoint what's going on is as more people don't have insurance (read aren't getting profitable elective surgeries), as health care costs rise, and as fewer wage-earners are paying taxes (either because of job loss or a lower paying job), extensions of tax reductions on the big players, etc. CMS has to cut back given this large role of tax and of course the private insurers are happy to follow. I do believe many healthcare organizations are truly struggling and in these circumstances there has to be an accelerated, incentive based move to economies of scale which we see before us in the form of ARRA Hitech (Meaningful Use), consolidations and buyouts of large health networks on smaller ones, formerly independent practices aligning with hospitals and more.
I also believe that people who invest in their education and in being the best have a right to expect a return on that investment and reasonable working conditions...and that the patient (er, no, the "customer"!) has a right to safe, decent nursing care in an environment where s/he will not leave with a HA nosocomial present or otherwise an inoptimal outcome. After all, without all this what in the heck is the point? ("First, do no harm").
Unfortunately we live in a tough time where near all the courts in the country are rigged with anti-labor appointees from two terms of Reagan and three of Bush. Nonstop emotionally appealing talking points have convinced people (despite all evidence to the contrary) that their interests as wage-earners are the same as the uberwealthy and people are just too busy trying to survive to really invest the time and effort to cut through all the bull. Yet I sense ( as opposed to know) that many people DO know what's going on though but are really really afraid. You get punished, ridiculed and sometimes worse for sticking up for the working people in this country. Recently what was predominantly unemployed working Americans and educated college graduates unable to find jobs were dismissed by near the entire media as a bunch of "dirty hippies".
With devastatingly high unemployment for now a decade, people are really over the barrel. Nobody wants a low paying, back breaking job with poor working conditions but nobody wants their kids to go without dinner and a roof over their heads. Unfortunately it has in fact come down to that. Employers are ruthless in these times.
Maybe this is why some people feel they are re-fighting the same battles over and over and it's taking all they have to hold onto modest gains/improvements.
Incidentally other unions have also taken devastating losses, needless to say workers in Wisconsin and Ohio, from teachers to police officers but also including ALPA and some of the pilots union. I think it's easier for pilots because the idea of a horrific aviation accident resulting form unsafe conditions, tired pilots or unqualified ones is simpler for people to understand than how a substandard nurse could do something to give them a life-threatening infection.
So now that we've established the problem and many of the reasons for it ranging from big monied propoganda mills to the psychology of nurses, to an economy increasingly at odds with favorable labor negotiating, I suppose the million dollar question is what to do about it...
Anyway, just surfing and throwing in my own NY .02.
Enjoy!
Extremely well said. Extremely! Your overview of the policies and and economy and the focus of attention of the masses is spot on.
talaxandra
3,037 Posts
I'm not sure whether to be comforted or crushed that the same thing's happening here as everywhere. I certainly think a significant part of why our work and value aren't recognised is gendered, on both sides - that "poor management had nasty things said about it" comment was chilling, and the idea that girls need to be nice and liked is disturbingly deeply sown.
This is compounded by the way we and our work are perceived. TPTB see a lot of what we do as "caring about" (rather than "caring for") as though there's some kind of X-chromosome that doesn't really need to be compensated for performing body work and that manages to avoid seeing the skill involved. It's not just them, though - too few of our patients recognise the level of sophisticated care we deliver, and entirely too few of our non-nursing colleagues do.
What disturbs me most, though, is how often I've been asked by other nurses why why I don't study medicine, because I'm "so smart" or "wasted as a nurse" - I used to dismiss it, but now I call them on it, asking why nurses can't be intelligent, skilled, adept and teach. If this idea that one can be too intelligent, educated, interested, whatever to nurse is endemic, what chance do we have convincing those outside the profession that these are essential, integral parts of the role?