Why "male nurses" instead of "men in nursing"?

casualjim · Mar 28, 2005

How about just plain old "Nurse"? should be pretty gender neutral, it's a job title not how your plumbing is rigged.

hypnotic_nurse · Mar 28, 2005

I've been in an accelerated grad-entry program for six months and have collected about a dozen examples of subtle--the worst kind--discrimination against men in my nursing program. (Using "she" when instructors refer to a generic nurse in my courses is a pet peeve of mine...

Personally, in written works I prefer "s/he" which is easier than the cumbersome "he or she" or "she or he". There's also another way of doing it, which is alternating paragraphs, one using female pronouns and one using male pronouns, which looks odd but one adapts pretty quickly. And speaking of "one", that usage often sounds stilted to modern ears. And while one can, if one is quick on one's feet, avoid all gender neutral pronouns, it is difficult for most to manage. And I think all of us would get sick of hearing an entire lecture given that way.

Since the vast majority of nurses still are female, using "she" generically in speaking is probably a better use than using "he" generically, although, as in written usage, it certainly wouldn't hurt any speakers to vary the gender at times. And it will also depend on the speaker's gender.

I can just see a room full of physics students, lots of men and a few women. Are the male instructors going to use "she"? Nope. Betcha anything they won't. Are the female instructors going to use "he"? Again, nope. Betcha they don't. Maybe what you need are more male instructors.

talaxandra · Mar 28, 2005

I agree - I much prefer 'men who are nurses' than the alternative.

The use of the pronoun 'she' may not be being used discriminatively - in social sciences the feminine pronoun is often used, as it is inclusive (s/he) and to rectify the historic bias of 'he' as an allegedly gender-inclusive pronoun.

The historic argument in favour of 'he' has been that it, like 'mankind', refers to us all, and that saying 'he or she' is too unwieldy. However, too often 'he' has meant the authors or researchers were talking about men and, if they thought of it at all, were prepared to extend themselves to including women. Of course there is now the risk that the use of 'she' or 's/he' will mean that men are included as an afterthought.

Whan I write generally (rather than about specific cases) in health care ethics I tend to use 'she' when referring to doctors or patients, and 'he' for nurses, in no small part to subvert the typical male/doctor, female/nurse tradition.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Apr 1, 2005

I agree - I much prefer 'men who are nurses' than the alternative.
The use of the pronoun 'she' may not be being used discriminatively - in social sciences the feminine pronoun is often used, as it is inclusive (s/he) and to rectify the historic bias of 'he' as an allegedly gender-inclusive pronoun.
The historic argument in favour of 'he' has been that it, like 'mankind', refers to us all, and that saying 'he or she' is too unwieldy. However, too often 'he' has meant the authors or researchers were talking about men and, if they thought of it at all, were prepared to extend themselves to including women. Of course there is now the risk that the use of 'she' or 's/he' will mean that men are included as an afterthought.
Whan I write generally (rather than about specific cases) in health care ethics I tend to use 'she' when referring to doctors or patients, and 'he' for nurses, in no small part to subvert the typical male/doctor, female/nurse tradition.

More and more writers are coming to use "they" as a neutral pronoun, even referring to a singular subject, and I have encountered a few professors who are increasingly willing to accept it. I don't see a problem with using "she", especially in instances like nursing where the vast majority are female. I'm not crazy about "he or she" or "he/she" or "s/he", though the latter does seem the most economical. Actually, I'd be all for the creation of a new, gender-neutral pronoun. It would seem awkward, just as "Ms." did, once, but I've learned to embrace Ms., since I often don't know women's marital status.

I will say, "male nurse" seems to have a lot of connotations beyond merely a man who is a nurse, but I don't believe it is usually used perjoratively, so it doesn't offend me. I certainly prefer to be called simply a nurse, but it isn't something I feel militant about.

unknown99, BSN, RN · Apr 1, 2005

How about just plain old "Nurse"? should be pretty gender neutral, it's a job title not how your plumbing is rigged.

Hey guys, I am not a male; I am a female, and I too, am a nurse. I agree with casualjim; why the difference? A nurse is a nurse no matter what your gender! Sorry about the invasion!! I just had to put in my 2 cents!!

MacERRN · Apr 1, 2005

I have been a nurse x18yrs. Have heard it all. I don't mind being called a "male nurse." It doesn't matter what kind of uniform or scrubs I'm wearing...what I hate is being mistaken for a doc, and after I correct them, "Oh, your just a nurse." Oh how I cringe!!

I ask them,(or reorient them) do you think a doctor would be spending all this time with you, taking you to the bathroom, or flying bedpans, or starting your IV's, transporting you to x-ray?

No, I don't mind "male nurse".

Larry · Apr 3, 2005

I read your posts - don't you know that women in nursing are afraid of us! Some feel definately threatened by us.

I am the only male nurse where I work - and on talking with my manager I said I would ask the girls (my team) what they thought - she was very annoyed with that phrase and said I was to call them nurses! I've made the mistake a few times......

This reference to us as male nurses is all about gender! NNothing more nothing less!

Welcome to the feminist world laddie! Welcome to sexism gone mad!

hypnotic_nurse · Apr 3, 2005

I read your posts - don't you know that women in nursing are afraid of us! Some feel definately threatened by us.
I am the only male nurse where I work - and on talking with my manager I said I would ask the girls (my team) what they thought - she was very annoyed with that phrase and said I was to call them nurses! I've made the mistake a few times......
This reference to us as male nurses is all about gender! NNothing more nothing less!
Welcome to the feminist world laddie! Welcome to sexism gone mad!

Oh please. You are working with independent, strong women. NOT girls. Most men don't care to be called "boy"...it's dismissive and belittling.

Sounds like you'd LIKE to think women are threatened by you, actually. I've enjoyed working with men and women who are nurses. There have been people of both sexes I've thought were less than competent, and people of both sexes who are absolutely brilliant nurses. I don't care what gender, religion, age, sexual orientation, color, nationality or any other picky detail AS LONG AS YOU DO YOUR JOB AND DON'T INTERFERE WITH ME DOING MINE.

I am willing to bet that 90% of the competent people you meet in any profession, including nursing, are right there with me.

BTW: stirring up trouble DOES interfere with me doing my job. It's that 10% who LIKE everything to be in turmoil all the time who are the problem, MALE, FEMALE OR whatever.

mcmike55 · Apr 3, 2005

This is my opinion, and only mine....so take it or leave it.

I've been a RN since 1977. A time when being a male nurse, was because you were A)too dumb/poor to be a doc or B) gay.

Being neither, I went into nursing because my mom was, and I saw what a good nurse (male or female) could contribute to the better good.

I agree with you that sometimes when someone includes me in "with the girls", I get a little miffed, but I can laugh it off. I usually go into a fake high falsetto voice and say something like...."thank you doctor."

As society gets used to men as nurses, things will/are changing.

You can sit around and argue that nursing would be better (or worse) because of men in the profession. I'm not going there....time will judge that.

Yes, there are things men, and only men can contribute to the profession, but I don't see why that has to be a point of an argument. Let it be like American society, you know a melting pot....enjoy the benefits, and live with the downsides.

In my mind, a competent, polite, professional, is who people want to work with and have them take care of them......why should it matter if you have one different chromosone!!!!

If there are "issues" I submit for consideration....that the problems are individual and not with "male vs female".

As far as what name to be called.....frankly who cares!!!

To me male nurse is fine, I understand that at times you need to be separated for certain pt care matters. Again to me, men in nursing or similar, makes you stand out....indicating that male nurses are different.

And of course we are....duh!! However, what the nursing profession needs is to be cohesive, one, a team......not a bunch of people pointing fingers!!!

Again my two cents.....have a nice day.

Proud to be in nursing....a male nurse. Mike

nursemike, ASN, RN · Apr 4, 2005

Oh please. You are working with independent, strong women. NOT girls. Most men don't care to be called "boy"...it's dismissive and belittling.
Sounds like you'd LIKE to think women are threatened by you, actually. I've enjoyed working with men and women who are nurses. There have been people of both sexes I've thought were less than competent, and people of both sexes who are absolutely brilliant nurses. I don't care what gender, religion, age, sexual orientation, color, nationality or any other picky detail AS LONG AS YOU DO YOUR JOB AND DON'T INTERFERE WITH ME DOING MINE.
I am willing to bet that 90% of the competent people you meet in any profession, including nursing, are right there with me.
BTW: stirring up trouble DOES interfere with me doing my job. It's that 10% who LIKE everything to be in turmoil all the time who are the problem, MALE, FEMALE OR whatever.

Not to be argumentative, but when I was in Junior High, my friends and I objected strongly to being called boys. By the time I was out of high school, I had far more important matters to concern me, and I can't think of one time as an adult that being called a boy disturbed me. You're right--it can be dismissive, but boy or girl can be used familiarly, too. It depends a lot on context--but I will agree, if you aren't sure familiarity is welcomed, man or woman is more appropriate. My experience has been that the girls I work with have no doubt that I respect them. What I do and how I act matter more than what I say, and that's exactly how I feel about "male nurse."

hypnotic_nurse · Apr 4, 2005

Not to be argumentative, but when I was in Junior High, my friends and I objected strongly to being called boys. By the time I was out of high school, I had far more important matters to concern me, and I can't think of one time as an adult that being called a boy disturbed me. You're right--it can be dismissive, but boy or girl can be used familiarly, too. It depends a lot on context--but I will agree, if you aren't sure familiarity is welcomed, man or woman is more appropriate. My experience has been that the girls I work with have no doubt that I respect them. What I do and how I act matter more than what I say, and that's exactly how I feel about "male nurse."

From your other posts I am willing to bet you have few to no problems with your coworkers. Attitude is everything. I have worked with men whose use of "girls" was friendly (and thus OK)...and I have worked with men for whom it was a putdown (therefore not OK). :) For the other poster -- whose manager corrected him -- perhaps it was perceived as "not OK"...and therefore he should avoid that usage.