Why don't people take LPNs seriously?

[Hellostudentnurssee]

I understand that as "nurses", we're the bottom of the food chain. I don't want to sound like a cry baby or put myself or other LPNs on a pedestal but I'm tired of people with the "you're just an LPN attitude". I do know many RNs that have been supportive and understanding. I know when you're a nurse, you have tough skin (and I usually do) but there are some days (like today) when it just gets to you.

I've been going to school for a long time - it's almost been 10 years from when I graduated high school. I've just been trying to get into any nursing school. I got my AA degree, became a CNA, worked, had to take pre-reqs over, and then the 2 years of LPN school. Now that it's all over, I realize how HARD it was...everything - emotionally, mentally, physically...especially if you had those really difficult instructors who made you feel incompetent. Anyhoo, the "problem" is mainly family members. I don't expect people to jump at my feet and floor me with compliments or attention but it's nice to be acknowledged. But if they don't, no big deal. I'm happy with myself with this accomplishment. I do get alot of "oh it's just LPN, no big deal" or "it's not an RN or BSN, so it's technically not a nurse yet." I do get what they're saying bc I have high expectations for myself and I know I'm not done in my career path but it really IRRITATES me and I think it's bc someone degrading the hard work I went through. Any kind of nursing school is HARD WORK. No offense but it's not like in CNA school...nothing compared to do that. It's almost like, "how dare you say that?" I think it's also a cultural thing to bc in my culture, it's like a stereotype to be a nurse. Anyhoo, sorry to be a debbie downer and vent but it really irritates me and I need to use my assertive, nursing communication "I-statement" skills now, should I? :)

[Fiona59]

Im starting an RPN program in September, and my friend is currently entering her 2nd year of a BScN program. I was talking to her yesterday and she was like "We always make fun of the RPNs on campus, so beware. We always joke around and whenever there is a patient to be toileted or a bed to be made we just yell for the RPNs to get it..." I'm like umm......oh joy. Is this what I get to go into?

And working LPNs and their Unit Managers knock a huge reality check into these princeses when they hit the floor. I've taken down a few with my Managers support.

[egio, MSN, RN, NP]

A first year RN student spent some time with me this summer, I was in disbelief how little he know after his first year of college.

Had he completed his first year of college or his first year of an ADN program? If he is a BSN student, it could be his first clinical rotation and if so, I could understand his not having seen an IM injection. I attended an ADN program and we started clinicals on the second week and at that point, I hadn't seen anything. As for not knowing what or where a prostate is, that should have been covered long before clinicals. If it were me, I would consider reporting his school to the board of nursing.

[egio, MSN, RN, NP]

There have been so many similar threads about the LPN/LVN. I went to school when dinosaurs walked the earth and...

Thank you (!) for your priceless insight. I really enjoyed your very very informative post.

[sidroc]

for someone who seems to pride themselves as a higher intellectual than us "LPN's", you really need to learn how to write more thoughtfully....this makes no sense and makes me chuckle, not with you....but at you.....:rotfl:

I do not pride myself as having a higher intellect than a LPN, nor have I alluded to it. I am a CNA starting a ADN program and do not know more than a LPN. What I will say is that it is a travesty that someone with the capacity to become an LVN or LPN does not advance to their RN. It to me is telling about their motivation. It makes me wonder if their in it for a paycheck big enough to buy their pizza and beer after a 12 hour shift, or if they truly want to make a difference and become personally successful as well as take pride in their status in healthcare as well as advance the cause of adequate patient care. I truly believe that anyone with the ability to obtain their LPN is capable of becoming an RN, however one who does not peruse higher education beyond the minimal will never have the same level of standing in my eyes.

Many of you might respond that life was difficult when you finished your LPN and that moving on was impossible. I believe this to be a fallacy as I have met many many immigrants from Ethiopia and Gambia, as well as other 3rd world countries who came here in the late 90's with their wife and kids penniless and now are RN's and BSN's at major hospitals. If a penniless immigrant with a wife/husband and children on a green card can do it, We have citizens have little valid excuses. All things considered, I am disappointed by the level of discourse you have displayed Wild Irish LPN given the immediate resort to an ad hominem, If you must know, I generally post from my phone on lunch at work and this can lead to many types of errors.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

I do not pride myself as having a higher intellect than a LPN, nor have I alluded to it. I am a CNA starting a ADN program and do not know more than a LPN. What I will say is that it is a travesty that someone with the capacity to become an LVN or LPN does not advance to their RN. It to me is telling about their motivation. It makes me wonder if their in it for a paycheck big enough to buy their pizza and beer after a 12 hour shift, or if they truly want to make a difference and become personally successful as well as take pride in their status in healthcare as well as advance the cause of adequate patient care. I truly believe that anyone with the ability to obtain their LPN is capable of becoming an RN, however one who does not peruse higher education beyond the minimal will never have the same level of standing in my eyes.

Many of you might respond that life was difficult when you finished your LPN and that moving on was impossible. I believe this to be a fallacy as I have met many many immigrants from Ethiopia and Gambia, as well as other 3rd world countries who came here in the late 90's with their wife and kids penniless and now are RN's and BSN's at major hospitals. If a penniless immigrant with a wife/husband and children on a green card can do it, We have citizens have little valid excuses. All things considered, I am disappointed by the level of discourse you have displayed Wild Irish LPN given the immediate resort to an ad hominem, If you must know, I generally post from my phone on lunch at work and this can lead to many types of errors.

If you are a CNA starting your ADN, why not BSN or NP? Why did you get a CNA and not just go right for BSN? You surely see how inflammatory these type of comments are. I am sure you have your reasons for wanting to pursue an ADN level, and LPN's have reasons for wanting to not pursue further education. My motivation is my kids, and my occupation shouldn't be "telling" about my motivation. LPN's are instrumental in clinics, LTC, rehabs, psych, MD's offices, Home Health, hospice....just to name a few. And I think you may find that as an ADN, you will not be seen in the same level of standing as well. My life (and I am sure many others) is not difficult, and I applaud anyone with the fortitude to rise above Ethiopian poverty and become educated. I became an LPN by choice and by chance, it was the correct circumstance at the time, and I enjoy what a do. Should by choice or by chance the opportunity to further my schooling comes up, then perhaps I shall pursue it. Otherwise, I have a master's level child, and a child who is in the pursuit of a master's, and a younger child. (Social Work, Teacher, 4th grader). I have incredibly smart kids, I am proud of them, THEY are my focus, as opposed to my education right now. BTW, my paycheck goes to part of their tuition, a mortgage and other necessaties of life, not pizza and beer. But back on subject--LPN's are patient advocates, licensed nurses, and do provide adequate patient care at a variety of levels and in a variety of settings. In most states LPN's can and do get certified in a variety of specialties (hospice, wound care, IV therapy....just to name a few). How people choose to view each other based on education alone is childish and demeaning. How people choose to view each other on who they are as people and character and how they conduct themselves is more in keeping with what people do as grown adults, in any setting.

[sidroc]

I understand your criticism, As for starting as an Aid first, my state requires working as an AID by law before being accepted to a ADN or BSN program and I feel that the best hospital nurses back it up with bedside experience as an AID. My pursuance of the ADN is an ends to a means. The community college I am taking it at has a direct transfer agreement with a local university for the BSN I will be out of school less than 4 months before starting in on my BSN Provided I am not injured or maimed etc. I do not plan to be without my BSN for any longer than I have too. I want to save money on my education, and graduate with my RN/move on to my BSN with next to no student loans. I have also completed as many co-requisites for the BSN as I can to insure my BSN is completed at an accelerated pace upon graduation from my ADN. As for what I will do after that is uncertain, but I can guarantee you that I wont be done with my education and will as soon as possible, pick a specialty or another advanced degree. I agree that their are many LPN's who have put furthering their education on hold to take on the role of a mother and that is one of the reasons I would consider valid for putting an education on hold. The unfortunate rise of trade schools for LPN's has poisoned nursing with the type I have mentioned above especially in my state where getting a LPN can be done with all C's in 10 months flat. I have spoke to so many nurses who complain about the level of respect received and comments like "you should of gone to med school" when their passion is nursing. This problem stems from the the very existence of lower classes of nurses. Many developed countries such as Canada have moved to only BSN's and America needs to follow in its place to ensure proper education, ensure adequate patient care, and protect the Salaries nurses have worked so hard for.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

Ah, but because someone is an LPN doesn't make them lower class. And even a BSN student can pass with all "C's". It all comes down to clinicals (can one pass them?) and the NCLEX (can one pass it?)

I have smart, gifted kiddos (they would roll their eyes at that statement LOL) who have been raised with content of character. If they wanted to be an LPN--have at it then. (again with the eye rolling as they would NOT want anything to do with blood and I say oh so sarcastically it might trash their Lilly scrubs--said with love, they don't do bodily fluids LOLOLOL). I would say that being raised in an affluent community with amazing parents (my own) and me doing what I can to make my kids ready for the world, where appropriateness is a huge part of all of this, do not for a moment believe that most LPN's are poor ignorant folk who burp and aspire to be on Jerry Springer. (and by the tone of your post, this seems to be where you are going with this) That is false, and again inflammatory. People complete levels of nursing because of a number of reasons. Each level of nursing care has it's place with the common goal of patients and their health and well being. There are many on this site who are in debt up to $100K and can't find a job. There are many who are burnt out after a year, and are second guessing career choices. There are many who are on impossible waiting lists to complete clinicals or to even get into nursing programs. I personally became an LPN because it became available to me as a viable option. And have no regrets. I enjoy psych, detox, clinic work, corrections nursing, hospice--therefore, LPN is more in keeping with what I enjoy. Should I want to be a nurse leader, then perhaps a BSN, but as an LPN, I can participate in areas of interest.

[sidroc]

Ah, but because someone is an LPN doesn't make them lower class. And even a BSN student can pass with all "C's". It all comes down to clinicals (can one pass them?) and the NCLEX (can one pass it?)

I have smart, gifted kiddos (they would roll their eyes at that statement LOL) who have been raised with content of character. If they wanted to be an LPN--have at it then. (again with the eye rolling as they would NOT want anything to do with blood and I say oh so sarcastically it might trash their Lilly scrubs--said with love, they don't do bodily fluids LOLOLOL). I would say that being raised in an affluent community with amazing parents (my own) and me doing what I can to make my kids ready for the world, where appropriateness is a huge part of all of this, do not for a moment believe that most LPN's are poor ignorant folk who burp and aspire to be on Jerry Springer. (and by the tone of your post, this seems to be where you are going with this) That is false, and again inflammatory. People complete levels of nursing because of a number of reasons. Each level of nursing care has it's place with the common goal of patients and their health and well being. There are many on this site who are in debt up to $100K and can't find a job. There are many who are burnt out after a year, and are second guessing career choices. There are many who are on impossible waiting lists to complete clinicals or to even get into nursing programs. I personally became an LPN because it became available to me as a viable option. And have no regrets. I enjoy psych, detox, clinic work, corrections nursing, hospice--therefore, LPN is more in keeping with what I enjoy. Should I want to be a nurse leader, then perhaps a BSN, but as an LPN, I can participate in areas of interest.

You misinterpret my use of the word class. I meant it to denote their levels of education, not the class of the individual. Studies show for example that the quality of care has a direct correlation to the amount of RN to LPN in a unit. LPN's quality of work has a measurable difference in the overall scheme of things.. Steven Littlehale from Long Term Care News said it best.

A higher RN-to-total-licensed ratio is associated with better clinical outcomes, lower workers’ compensation costs, better survey outcomes, more stars on the Five-Star Rating System, fewer significant professional liability (PL) claims and a higher proportion of Medicare and private pay as opposed to Medicaid residents.

Keep in mind that if hospitals didnt think the difference was signifigant, they would replace as much of the staff as they could with LPN's to maximise their profit ratios.

[Wild Irish LPN, LPN]

I do not pride myself as having a higher intellect than a LPN, nor have I alluded to it. I am a CNA starting a ADN program and do not know more than a LPN. What I will say is that it is a travesty that someone with the capacity to become an LVN or LPN does not advance to their RN. It to me is telling about their motivation. It makes me wonder if their in it for a paycheck big enough to buy their pizza and beer after a 12 hour shift, or if they truly want to make a difference and become personally successful as well as take pride in their status in healthcare as well as advance the cause of adequate patient care. I truly believe that anyone with the ability to obtain their LPN is capable of becoming an RN, however one who does not peruse higher education beyond the minimal will never have the same level of standing in my eyes.

Many of you might respond that life was difficult when you finished your LPN and that moving on was impossible. I believe this to be a fallacy as I have met many many immigrants from Ethiopia and Gambia, as well as other 3rd world countries who came here in the late 90's with their wife and kids penniless and now are RN's and BSN's at major hospitals. If a penniless immigrant with a wife/husband and children on a green card can do it, We have citizens have little valid excuses. All things considered, I am disappointed by the level of discourse you have displayed Wild Irish LPN given the immediate resort to an ad hominem, If you must know, I generally post from my phone on lunch at work and this can lead to many types of errors.

you frustrate me....you are full of assumptions about something you know little about....LPN's are well paid, and not too far under what the ADN-RN makes, a few dollars less to be exact....we provide for our families just fine, thank you....I am starting my path towards my BSN, in fact I started with five others from my class one month after graduation....I did this because of my desire to learn more, to advance my knowledge, but doing so will not make me a "better nurse"....I work with LPN's and RN's at my facility, and the one nurse that EVERYONE goes to for judgement call is the LPN....that is because she has lived the life as a nurse for several years, and knows what the in's and out's are in assessment and judgement calls....she is priceless to all of us, and no amount of schooling will change that....I am frustrated because you have yet to do one lab, one clinical....you have yet to spend one hour in nursing school, and yet you have all the answers.....this attitude will not serve you well, and may sink you before you even start....save your opinions until you actually have something to base them upon, until then you simply are a joke....

[Debilpn23]

you frustrate me....you are full of assumptions about something you know little about....LPN's are well paid, and not too far under what the ADN-RN makes, a few dollars less to be exact....we provide for our families just fine, thank you....I am starting my path towards my BSN, in fact I started with five others from my class one month after graduation....I did this because of my desire to learn more, to advance my knowledge, but doing so will not make me a "better nurse"....I work with LPN's and RN's at my facility, and the one nurse that EVERYONE goes to for judgement call is the LPN....that is because she has lived the life as a nurse for several years, and knows what the in's and out's are in assessment and judgement calls....she is priceless to all of us, and no amount of schooling will change that....I am frustrated because you have yet to do one lab, one clinical....you have yet to spend one hour in nursing school, and yet you have all the answers.....this attitude will not serve you well, and may sink you before you even start....save your opinions until you actually have something to base them upon, until then you simply are a joke....

I totally agree with you Wild Irish

[suzisweet]

There were factors in my choosing to become a LPN vs a RN 25 years ago: money(600 dollars for the course), the school was 10 miles from my home, preclinicals were half day and I could continue to work full time, small class(20 students in clinical). I had small children at the time and couldn't spend the time or money for college. I did go back and start my LPN to Rn bridge, but had to drop out for family reasons. I haven't given up the dream of finishing though, even if it's to say I did it. It will happen.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I originally graduated from a ADN program. I was oriented by one of the best nurses I have met in my career.....she happened to be an LPN with a TON of bedside experience. I learned more from her than you could ever imagine. LPNs were, in my opinion, pushed out the LPNs out of the acute care setting by the growing population of "higher educated" or degreed nurses to pushed their own agenda of having an all RN staff " for the betterment of the patient" It of course had nothing whatsoever to do with increasing enrollment into their academic programs.

I have always taken issue when a "study" is performed by the very people that benefit form the "studies" outcome....like all RN staff makes it safer for patients.........20 years ago that meant the ADN grad.......now it's "BSN grad only" graduate that is capable of "advanced" critical thinking to "improve patient outcomes" When in actuality it is just the availability of enough staff to care for the patient that will lead to improved outcomes.

LPNs and RN's are completely different entities and have their own value in the health care food train. It's like apple and oranges......they may both be fruits but they are nothing alike. This subject of LPN vs RN vs ADN vs BSN vs MSN vs......blah, blah, blah has been talked out, debated about, argued about since the beginning of time......if we could all just value each other.

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