Why DNP and not MD?

klone, MSN, RN · Nov 20, 2015

Hey, I apologized for being prickly in my responses.

We just get really tired of defending the nursing Doctorate.

MEandaDNP2b · Nov 20, 2015

I could not agree more. Nursing will always have a different focus than an MD. I also would love to do teaching. Are trials are alined it looks like.

Senayon85 · Nov 20, 2015

well said...

Goldenfox · Nov 21, 2015

Some, but certainly not many, NPs want to become MDs. The 'why' about the AACN is buried beneath the misgivings of late 20th century nursing politics. Back then it was largely about perceived 'turfdom' and 'equivalency' between physician and advance practice nurses. The whole thing is totally ridiculous! I am a nurse practitioner and I have really good clinical skills, but I have no desire to compare myself to physicians. I don't know any NPs who do so either. It makes no sense. Even though we overlap, medicine is a completely different discipline. Its really a relatively small number of activist NPs who are on the whole 'we're just as good as the docs' thing. Most of us are proud of our profession and love what we do. All of us do not have antagonistic or adversarial relationships with physicians. Even in states where NPs have independent practice rights we still work together because at the end of the day its outcomes that matter, not so much the alphabet soup behind our names.

There is no NP program out there that compares to medical school. None. And NP clinicals are nothing compared to the residencies that the physicians go through. And such comparisons are inappropriate because NPs are still nurses---no matter what doctoral titles they have. There used to be a bit of a backlash years ago over the DNP, but not so much anymore. I would say that many physicians view the DNP degree with skepticism, and some don't regard it at all. They certainly will not pay you any more money for having a DNP.

I am in a DNP program and I like it. I like it because it is a vehicle that I am using to expand my knowledge base and to think about how I can productively rollout new evidence into my clinical practice to improve my patient outcomes. Its nothing like medical school, but if it were then it wouldn't be a nursing degree. My personal opinion is that the AACN was in too much of a hurry to push the DNP. It needed to be better fleshed out and rationalized. I'm still not convinced that they even know what it really is, and the DNP coursework certainly contains nothing that should make it mandatory for all practitioners. I'm not knocking the DNP, but I am knocking the idea of making it mandatory for NPs. They need to fix it so that it becomes a real advanced nursing CLINICAL PRACTICE degree.

MD schooling and NP schooling are nowhere near the same---not at the undergraduate or graduate level. To get into medical school you need to take general and organic chemistry, physics, general biology, and calculus. You not only need to get really good grades to be a competitive applicant but you need a better than average score on the MCAT. It is not easy to get into a medical school in the USA. The competition is intense and they pick the best of the best. I don't know of any NP school that is all that difficult to get into. Except for the CRNA programs that require the GRE, most NP schools have no entrance exam screening. In fact, most of them have ads on the internet to recruit students (a thing that no reputable medical school ever does). The state medical boards are a real challenge. The NP boards are very basic in comparison. There are now also a lot of degree mills online offering your RN to DNP credentials in 18 to 24 months. These schools have legitimate accreditation and that should never have happened.

theradiantforce · Nov 21, 2015

Why is it illogical? I'm an RN trying to decide if I want to go for an advanced degree that allows me to become a provider. But if I have to spend just about as much time doing it, why stop short of being an MD, with, sorry, a lot more stature and scope of practice than a DNP? It's about effort/money/time vs. Outcome

"More stature"....*sigh* Must we belittle ourselves?

DNPboundatUIC · Nov 21, 2015

A few points.

1) One member said that a DNP program would run $50,000. I am unaware of what schools you have looked into. All the reputable schools I checked into before deciding on UIC cost a minimum of $80,000 for a BSN - DNP program. Mine will probably run almost $120,000 when all is said and done. I am unaware of any state where public university tuition is decreasing.

2) As others have said, an NP is a nurse at heart. The curriculum of a BSN-DNP program is leadership heavy. This is because there are a great deal of administration positions that ought to be filled by nurses and in Magnet facilities often are. The curriculum continues to focus on human differences and holistic approaches to treating patients. Although I believe that is a target of the DO I am not sure of what that program entails. I have multiple classes aimed at utilization of evidence based practice. Undoubtedly this is essential to quality outcomes. Then there is the core NP classes of course that would closest to the physician curriculum. And lastly my program has a research implementation project. I do not gather new data but interpret data and implement a program to improve outcomes.

3) This is personal opinion - I think that when the push for baccalaureate preparation as entry level nursing education became accepted there was only a two year education difference between an RN and an NP. Given that the AACN is comprised of a high number of academics, they felt that a greater difference was needed to validate the contrast in function.

I feel that some members on this board are not fully aware that many academic institutions no longer offer a Master's level NP program and are refering to a post-masters DNP. I specifically chose the DNP over the Masters. When I finished my ADN I could not get work and moved half way across the country for work because all the hospitals in CA wanted a BSN. So when I decided to go back to school for my NP I did want to suffer the same consequence. I also have aspirations to teach nursing and a doctoral degree will help with that.

koreanjohn32 · Nov 21, 2015

Radiantforce, I'm very happy to be an RN. After a successful yet not fulfilling career in industrial design, I became an RN at 45. I LOVE what I do. But, I'm realistic about perception. Loving and valuing yourself is one thing, however realistic public perception is another. To ignore that we have relative "stature" in this world is fallacious.

koreanjohn32 · Nov 21, 2015

Goldenfox, thank you for your comment. I understand the competitive nature of medical school...I come from a family of doctors. My grandfather was one of the first western educated MDs in Korea under the Japanese occupation. My current GPA is 3.9. I'm not worried about getting into med school.

However, being older, I wanted to enter medicine relatively quickly, and your post made me realize that even with a DNP, its still much less rigorous and time consuming than MD school.

More than that, I love how holistic nursing practice is. I know that the medical model is different. NPs do retain that holistic approach and certainly are more approachable.

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Nov 21, 2015

How on earth does an RN not understand that a DNP is less school than an MD?

koreanjohn32 · Nov 21, 2015

Invitale, why so hateful?

It's relative effort vs. Outcome.

koreanjohn32 · Nov 21, 2015

To all you haters, rather than being demeaning and rude for an honest question, for which I still haven't come to a decision about which path to choose, you fit the stereotype of nurses who "eat their young." Stop living the stereotype.

klone, MSN, RN · Nov 21, 2015

And....the thread has now jumped the shark.