Why do we devalue our "soup?"

Katnip, RN · Dec 20, 2007

I think this is done by people who can't or won't get those certs or advanced degrees for one reason or another. They feel threatened and that somehow the one who does further their education thinks of themselves as a better nurse.

I don't want to debate, but if you do look at the ADN/BSN debate, you'll see a lot of ADNs get very defensive, saying they feel that just because you have a higher degree doesn't make you a better nurse. That's rarely what the true issue is, it's more about looking like professionals to the rest of the world, but many people think of it as a "who's a better nurse debate."

I think the same holds true with any certification or advanced degree.

EricJRN, MSN, RN · Dec 20, 2007

See, I'm all for showing professional accomplishments, but I'd have to play devil's advocate on this one. Compared to other professions, I think healthcare (and nursing in particular) does more than its fair share of the initials game. Part of it probably has to do with the multiple avenues for entry-level education in nursing, which makes some clarification necessary.

Think about the local lawyer that you see on TV. Do you know his academic and professional credentials? I know I don't. The same goes for our local teachers, architects, and even engineers.

Trauma Columnist · Dec 20, 2007

And...I'll take the other side: nowadays people are generally better educated than in years past. I think having the extra initials for degrees earned, national certifications and then the dept name is appropriate. I think listing BLS, ACLS, PALS on one's nametag though does lend itself to confusion.

Sign me...traumarus, APN (that is what the state of Il requires). I usually add: MSN.

RNperdiem, RN · Dec 20, 2007

There is limited use for certifications in the workplace. Sometimes nurses feel that employers do not value extra certifications. Is there any monetary compensation for it?- that would be a measure of value. Employers, I believe tend to see things as quantities that can be measured- as in- the nurse with certifications takes care of the same number of patients as the uncertified nurse. The differences in care is a subtle thing that gets overlooked.

RN1989 · Dec 20, 2007

I have some alphabet soup behind my name. My dislike of it has nothing to do with feeling jealous or inferior.

I've watched for years as BSN and MSN nurses treated ASN nurses badly. As more nurses got certifications and even higher degrees, I watched again as "regular staff" without all the letters were treated badly by their coworkers. I have watched nurses tell pts that they are better than other nurses because they have all the letters behind their names. I've watched as 30+ year veterans who can work circles around 90% of the other staff were belittled and demeaned because their family, work, and financial situation did not allow them to pay all the extra money for more tuition, lots of cont. ed. plus the fees associated with the various certification exams.

Nursing is so divided as it is. On other threads everyone acknowledges that nurses are not united together to be able to effect much change. I believe that the alphabet soup game is just one more way that nurses use to lift their own self esteem while purposely or inadvertently demeaning their coworkers - further injuring nursing and causing the rift to get even bigger. If nurses could use their initials as they were meant to be - to validate that they have knowledge, instead of causing dissension among the ranks, then I would not decry the use of all the alphabets. This is just another issue that causes us to bicker among ourselves and ignore the true issues in nursing that need to be corrected.

Miss Mab · Dec 20, 2007

. I believe that the alphabet soup game is just one more way that nurses use to lift their own self esteem while purposely or inadvertently demeaning their coworkers - further injuring nursing and causing the rift to get even bigger. If nurses could use their initials as they were meant to be - to validate that they have knowledge, instead of causing dissension among the ranks, then I would not decry the use of all the alphabets. This is just another issue that causes us to bicker among ourselves and ignore the true issues in nursing that need to be corrected.

This I find incredibly sad. While I can't deny your own past experience is what you say it is, still, how distressing.

I guess it turns out this issue is inevitably linked to that "other" debate which drives me absolutely batty. But am I correct in understanding you that, if you had your druthers, nursing would have no opportunities to excel or specialize or even allow expanded higher educational positions because it might make other people feel bad? I don't want to simplify what you've said--just trying to understand.

I don't know. For me, I think I'm more bothered by the idea of "dumbing down" achievement in order to satisfy someone else who clearly has no interest in participating. Which is fine if they don't, clearly nursing has room for everyone, but it is indeed distressing that someone else would need to hide their own hard earned credentials in order to keep the greater peace.

I'm not talking about the badge w/every conceivable cert. on it(and no people, your acls, etc. don't belong anywhere like that) 'cause that is annoying, it just seems to me that when friends get their MSN or CRFN cert. or whatever they have to downplay it so people don't get bent outta shape. What's that about?

Again I ask, who else does that?

Anyway, thanks for the different inputs so far.

RN1989 · Dec 20, 2007

I do believe in some sort of advanced credentials to recognize experience/education beyond basic nursing school. In the case of nursing leaders (not just CNOs, there are nursing leaders who have staff nurse positions) I think that the extra measures people take with certifications/education definitely can give you an idea of their level of performance when you are looking to hire someone.

My problem is that nursing as a whole does not appropriately use those credentials. I am proud of my own accomplishments but I don't use them when interacting with others. At work I am RN just like everyone else as it has no place in interpersonal relationships and routine working environments. I do promote certifications among others and assist them to study,etc. to help them achieve those goals. But otherwise it just is not a topic that needs to come up in day to day interactions. When I'm on the floor I wipe butts just like a CNA. I don't need all the alphabet soup to show that I can do pericare and skin assessments. But when I am acting in a resource capacity to someone else, they usually have an idea that I have some higher level of knowledge/experience than they do or they would not have asked me to help them in the first place. They don't need me to imply that I am smarter than they are because I have a cert. that they don't have.

Nursing is really the only occupation that uses the soup game to try to elevate its status by making others feel inferior. Nurses are so frustrated by their jobs that they take the easy way of getting self esteem and use their credentials to boost themselves while putting down others. Why else would you see things like BLS, ACLS, TNCC behind nurse's names? Because they have been made to feel badly and so they put the educational couses behind their names to give the illusion to grandeur to those that don't know better.

Many doctors have soup behind their names but you don't see them showing up with a nametag that has to have 2 lines of printing to show all their credentials. They are MD/DO period. Their doctor status is enough for them to have pride in themselves and expect that their pts will have confidence in them. Doctors expect that they are respected because of their title. Why don't nurses feel the same way? Why don't we treat each other the same way?

So many threads on this forum deal with nurses and whether or not they feel professional. Whether or not nursing is white collar or blue collar work. Why nurses are treated like crap while doctors act arrogant and condescending. Whether a diploma nurse is as good as an ASN etc. Nurses have MAJOR issues! As a whole we still focus on crap like that and the alphabet soup game to make each INDIVIDUAL person feel better about their chosen occupation and themselves instead of working as a TEAM to enhance the overall profession. If we all worked toward unity in nursing people wouldn't be tempted to use the alphabet game to elevate their own status. And we would have one totally awesome healthcare system.

Trauma Columnist · Dec 20, 2007

RN1989 - thanks for your approach to this issue.

Miss Mab · Dec 20, 2007

RN 1989 I think we may actually share the same end goals for nursing but definitely not on ways to get there! And you are much more eloquent this AM than I.

I just don't believe anything is advanced by the falulty assuption that "most" people advance their education in order to inflate their own self esteem or to make others feel inferior.

Unless there's a bunch of people running around doing that kind of thing that I've just never seen.

I seriously don't see it as nurses trying to make themselves as individuals feel better. It is actually about the whole team as you say but calling it a "game" does nothing positive in my opinion. Anybody who completed post graduate education just shouldn't be lumped in with a bunch of "soup" or a called a "game."

In any profession.

And until nursing as whole and as a team gets that, well, we're back to square one aren't we?

I'm having a hard time understanding how pursuing certs or advanced/graduate education is taking the easy way out. I fear that the longer we view it that way we are going to continue to lose potential advocates for change to other health care professions. Again, sad.

Appreciate your perspective though.

classicdame, MSN, EdD · Dec 20, 2007

I think of it like this: When I could not afford a diamond I thought they were tacky. It is a way to protect an ego.

RN1989 · Dec 20, 2007

I am NOT saying that there is no value to higher education and certifications. And I don't believe that people achieve them thinking that they are going to use them as weapons against their colleagues. But in the stresses of the workday when people feel devalued and unappreciated, instead of fixing the problems causing the low morale, they use their soup to make themselves feel better. I can't count the number of times that I've heard things like "She ONLY has a nursing degree. She hasn't gotten her certification. She doesn't know anything. I'm a better nurse than she is." Heck, I've even been guilty of thinking it myself when I was having problems with a colleague that had less experience than I did. It becomes a way to make yourself feel better when you don't want to look for a better option for dealing with the current issue.

The problem IS NOT the credential. It is HOW the credential is used after it is obtained. Does your job DEPEND on having those credentials on your nametag at work? If you are a manager, does your staff care that you have soup after your name? NO! They care that you come out and help them when they need it. That they can come to you with problems and that you fairly help them resolve the issues. They care that you CARE about them. The staff doesn't give a rat's behind what your education and certification is.

If you are a staff nurse, does your patient REALLY care that you have all those letters behind your name? They need someone to help them bathe, toilet, and give them pain meds. They don't give a rat's behind WHO helps them do those things because they have needs that must be met. If someone with the soup cannot or refuses to meet their needs, the pts are going to be happy with the unlicensed person that doesn't have ANY education. When someone is dying, they don't care that you have those credentials, all they care about is someone that can give them CPR.

I think that the credentials are important in CERTAIN situations among COLLEAGUES - job hunting, mentoring someone who would like to attain the credentials you have. But in day to day work, showing those credentials are not necessary to get the job done.

There is too much division in nursing today. Why cause one more little problem to further alienate a large percentage of nurses by insisting on showing your soup? Should they feel bad because you have the soup? No, that is their issue AEB the post about the diamond. But the fact remains that there are too many important issues that we need to be correcting. Since it doesn't hurt me in any way, shape, or form by NOT having the soup on my nametag - then why should I wear the soup and cause problems with the very nurses that I am trying to unite for more important causes?