Why wouldn't this cost of living hack work for California?

Nurses General Nursing

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Right now we live in Florida (put aside that I'm in school to be a PMHNP and that my wife currently works from home as one). If we went back to "bedside" why couldn't we live in Vacaville and commute to San Francisco (we each have about 10 years ICU experience) or live in Carson City Nevada and commute to Sacramento (or at least I could my wife could keep her current home based PMHNP, telemedicine job). In this way we could benefit from the high California pay (currently I make $45,00 no benefits working nights in the ICU) while minimizing the higher cost of living. Actually, I think living in Nevada and commuting to Sacramento might be the better bet even with relatively less pay in Sacramento than San. Fran. Currently, although I only live 32 miles from work in Orlando it takes me about an hour going one direction, but two hours with traffic going home.

Specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.
1 hour ago, LilPeanut said:

And they were in school longer.

Much, much longer!! An eternity. Haha. By the time my husband finishes residency, it'll be 11 years of education and training.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.
4 hours ago, Pixie.RN said:

Much, much longer!! An eternity. Haha. By the time my husband finishes residency, it'll be 11 years of education and training.

Not longer in my case. Before even starting nursing school in my 30’s I had about 200 college credits, mostly sciences and business with a 3.8 GPA, but no degree. For that education I paid as I went with no debt, about half my debt came when we were both in school 60k, and I could only work minimally ( during my ASN). The rest came during my masters (not my BSN) about 60k. The other 45k is accumulated interest from in school deferment, and forebearances. I’ve been in school at least part time for about 25 years since graduating high school. As for the doctors I’ve met several (here in Florida) who owe 200-300k, but tell me they can barely clear 100k after expenses in “primary medicine” despite working 80 hour weeks.

It perplexes me that some of you seem almost angry when I telling you that I plan to do exactly what you advocate “stay put work hard, pay debt”. Why does the dream (even if it is a delusion in the end) matter if it is the “cognitive Prozac” that enables me to get up in the AM. and work rather than hitting the bottle or doing something else less productive? Also, there is a chance however fleeting especially if I pay my debt or her tele job goes South that she will change her mind more in line with my thinking. If not then “ the delusion dream” will. be part of what gets me through the day. For you perhaps it’s the anticipation of friends, food, sporting events, sex, concerts, but for me it is my dream, paranormal podcasts, video games, and exercise.

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Specializes in OB.
20 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

Why does the dream (even if it is a delusion in the end) matter if it is the “cognitive Prozac” that enables me to get up in the AM. and work rather than hitting the bottle or doing something else less productive?

Because your "dream," as you've described it, involves convincing your SO, who it sounds like already puts up with a lot from you, to want that dream as well, even though she's been saying for years that it's not what she wants. Because you've come to this board asking for advice on how to strong-arm her into wanting that dream, which is offensive and creepy.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.

I came on to this board in this thread specifically to ask about "California cost of living hacks" based in part upon first and experience with a real couple Dave and Patty who have radically improved their financial position by being California "travel nurses" (basically doubled it). The conversation widened to include my ambitions to live in Kauai and have a business. While convincing my SO to move (or be ok with me going on my own and commuting home) is an implied part of the plan at no time did I ask for "psychological rhetoric" to convince her of anything. Few people could convince my SO of anything (unless she wanted to be) she is very independent minded. Much of what I offered here (such as my clinic plan) could be read and utilized by another PMHNP, NP, or psychiatrist and would in fact help them be successful and offer superior care to their clients (even if I am never able to implement it myself). Furthermore, much of the advice about not being able to "drive over the Sierra's or through the desert could help others considering something similar. I don't require that my SO share my dream. Yes I hope and pray that she comes to share it (or at least to find it as appealing as any alternative dreams she may or may not have herself), but realize that this is a "long shot". Also some of the advice such as hiking in the Smokey's, or going to PR to snorkel is nice (except my son doesn't like to hike more than about an hour, still I could do solo hikes). Why is it "creepy" to have a dream that you have shared literally with almost every person you have met since the age of 25? Sad, perhaps, pathetic ok (especially if it is likely to go unrealized). I am not saying on this forum anything that I have not said to my coworkers in the ICU, clinic where I'm a PMHNP, or essentially every other person in my life. Ultimately, I'm seeking perspectives (and have received them and for that I am thankful), it's just that the negative emotions bother me to some significant degree. Bottom line, I agree that for now I need to stay put, work hard,, and pay my bills. However, the thing that will "make that possible" from a "cognitive" perspective is believing that there is a "chance" of living in Hawaii, or (and) or perhaps and, or having an IP psychiatric clinic. Even if my SO won't participate in the clinic perhaps I could find a partner (NP or not) who could assist in the organizational dynamics of the business where I am weak in exchange for above market pay.

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On 6/11/2019 at 12:45 PM, myoglobin said:

I doubt you would say that if my plan allows her to retire at 60 rather than 70 with over a million in the bank. She aspires to pay for her nieces college and our sons something that will be daunting w/o a different paradigm such as the one I propose. I am trying to bring something into fruition that could last well beyond our lifetimes and help many people.

If your son is a good student and graduates high school in Florida, he should qualify for Bright Futures which means he can go to a state school tuition free if I am not mistaken.

With 180K income, she will have no problem covering the rest of the college expenses for him.

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16 hours ago, myoglobin said:

Here's the thing my "dream talk" is pretty low intensity around the house. She buys a piece a furniture and ask's me what I think and I say "I don't care as long as it can be shipped to Kauai". She comments about a house she likes and I say "if it was in Hawaii, it would be fine". Then maybe it's not mentioned for a month or two. She has even mentioned going there for her birthday next Summer of her own accord. At the end of the day despite my big dream talk I'm a pretty laid back individual, and I won't easily be starting any businesses by myself (one of the biggest reasons that our mortgage company went bust was that when she had to take time off for our son when he was born, I could sell the loans, and figure out how to get them approved, but was helpless to copy, collate, and "process" them). I am simply to unorganized to execute a business by myself. Since I was 25 I've worked pretty much every job with my SO (collections for a non profit hospital, mortgage lead generation, mortgage loan officer, mortgage company owner, ICU nurse) I've never worked apart from her more than about three years (now is the longest stretch). In addition to my other issues I'm probably straight up dependent personality. It is probably not too much of a stretch to believe that if I succeed in getting a home based tele-medicine job like she has that I will go full blown agoraphobic, get all my stuff via Amazon, stop working out, regain the 100 pounds I've kept off for 10 years and end up washing myself with a rag on a stick (or as I used to say to my coworkers in the ICU when I wasn't ranting about Hawaii , "if I could get a tele-med job like my SO, I would get a foley, a rectal tube and start working on some stage four pressure sores").

You can't do it without her and she doesn't want to do it.

You sound frustrated by that but it is the reality.

Based on what you have said about her, she sounds like she is sensible and makes smart decisions. It would not be smart to throw away your son's Bright Futures opportunity at a Florida college by giving up residency at this point. That would put your family another 60-80K in the hole... and your SO does not strike me as the type of person to make expensive mistakes like that.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.
1 hour ago, 2Ask said:

You can't do it without her and she doesn't want to do it.

You sound frustrated by that but it is the reality.

Based on what you have said about her, she sounds like she is sensible and makes smart decisions. It would not be smart to throw away your son's Bright Futures opportunity at a Florida college by giving up residency at this point. That would put your family another 60-80K in the hole... and your SO does not strike me as the type of person to make expensive mistakes like that.

I probably could do it without her, but my chances of success would be much less, and I would have to hire someone (like our old unit secretary) to do the organizational stuff. However, as stated previously I'm not willing to leave my family, if I cannot change her mind. Also, I agree about the tuition in state, but he wants to go to school on campus and the UCF housing runs about 15K per year (they inflate the housing, because so many people get free tuition in my opinion). I think because he was always home-schooled that he is anxious to "get out" a bit. He is not excited about my advice to never date and focus on school adopting my "asperger's isolation" lifestyle. However, he also wants to join ROTC and have it pay for college a thought which disturbs my SO far, far more than even the concept of moving to Kauai.

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At 15K you are still saving at least 60K (and much more compared to private school tuition). And 15K will be easy to cash-flow out of 180K income.

Hopefully your son can live his own life and make his own choices: to date or not, to live in the dorms, and even career- is it his own idea to do nursing? Your utilitarian view of others as extensions of yourself (he should adopt your aspie isolation)- tools for you to use to further your ambitions (he and SO should be cogs in your business machine)- seems like it could be oppressive for a teenager (and SO).

They are people with their own desires, interests, and dreams. ISTM Love would see them.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.

I don’t want to control anyone, but I have an obligation to offer my son advice. At the same time I have aspirations which could not only improve my financial situation, but play a role in reshaping psychiatry in a positive direction for untold multitudes.

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Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro.

I don’t want to control anyone, but I have an obligation to offer my son advice. At the same time I have aspirations which could not only improve my financial situation, but play a role in reshaping psychiatry in a positive direction for untold multitudes.

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I really liked your idea of doctors and nurses OWNING a hospital. It is visionary. You have mentioned that primary care docs in Florida are dissatisfied with their income, as are nurses. Florida might be the PERFECT place for an idea like that to come to fruition!

https://aapsonline.org/surgery-centers-with-cash-friendly-pricing/

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19 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

I don’t want to control anyone, but I have an obligation to offer my son advice.

And he is free to take it or leave it. I've found that 18 year old children have a mind of their own- some more than others. My 19 yos is more likely to do the opposite of any "advise" I give so I keep my opinions to myself lest he really go off the rails trying to prove something.

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