Why do you believe what you believe, concerning your position on health care?

[GCTMT]

I'd like for you all to consider what it is that made you come to the conclusions you have come to, regarding health care delivery systems. I have noticed that their are quite a few single-payer advocates in the forum, some who advocate a two-tier system as well as others.

So, consider within these criteria.

1)Media attention. Did (or does) the media play a role in your positions?

2)Personal Experience. Maybe you had a family member that was treated unfairly by the insurance companies, or, another poster might have had a loved one that they felt was treated unfairly by the VA or Medicare.

3)Scholarly research. What criteria do you used to ensure that it is indeed a credible source, and how heavy does it way on your decision making regarding your position?

Please also, rate the relevance of all three.

[GCTMT]

carried over from another thread...

Well, it's certainly your time to do whatever you choose to do. Your assertion that I don't live up to the criteria (that I set) is baseless. You have know way of knowing what criteria I live up to support my overall position on health care delivery systems.

The criteria I set were important to me, all of them and you shouldn't presume that I do not have research to support my positions, which apparently you do.

As far as your assertion that it would be "a waste of time", I agree.

I explained why I woud prefer the discussion continue on this thread, if you can not respect that, that is of course your decision.

As far as your assertion that it would be "a waste of time", I agree, especially considering our difference of opinion in terms of health care delivery systems.

Good Day.

[Honnête et Sérieux]

It's a waste of time because YOU are setting the conditions, and they are invalid.

That is not how dialogue is conducted.

And I assume nothing about your capacity to follow your own criteria for two reasons which are obvious; the first is related to the previously mentioned inclusion of invalid sources, and the second is related to our obvious ability to look at the material you've provided and actually see the methods you use.

As I see it, you are saying this; we will compete on a level playing field where I can cheat and you have to tie your hands behind your back.

Even in the absence of this discrepancy, I still consider such an endeavor to be a waste of time because I have NO TIME to engage in a discussion like this which allows the use of anecdotes and non-academic sources. No self-respecting person would.

Have a nice week...this isn't for me. And I'm pretty sure you won't get any traction out of suggesting that I'm afraid to engage in the discussion, because both friend and foe here will probably disagree.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

I believe every person and their family should have guaranteed health care, just as is available to families in other industrialized countries.

No American should go bankrupt because they get sick. No more being discouraged from seeking preventive care because of high out-of-pocket costs, or denied needed treatment because the insurance doesn't want to pay for it.

Like many nurses I see patients harmed and dying unnecessarily every hour of every day because the insurance companies give big money to our politicians.

The result is reform proposals that protect the insurers instead of the rest of us.

Abetter way is to expand and update Medicare to cover everyone. It's the most comprehensive, cost effective, reform of all.

With guaranteed choice of doctor and provider, no co-pays and deductibles, real cost control that eliminates waste and fraud, and comprehensive benefits for less than we and our employers pay now.

I'm just one person doing quite well on a nurses pay.

One person cannot do it but together YES WE CAN!

Lets convince the President and Congress that it CAN happen here.

[Ceeceenumber3]

i think a persons health should be a right, not a privelege...

[Honnête et Sérieux]

I'm not following you; health is a condition, not a political construct.

Are you saying healthCARE should be a right?

So what? How does this make any difference?

I choose to not disagree, because it doesn't make any difference if you define it as a right or a privilege or a religion or a color. Defining it as a right simply means that the gov't cannot legally deny you the right to pursue whatever healthcare you might want. It doesn't mean they have any obligation to provide it. Nowhere in the preamble or the bill of rights is it listed that the gov't will give you the substance of these rights, but will only protect your own ability to pursue those rights...i.e. to own a gun, say what you want, be free from unreasonable search and seizure...to name a few.

[GCTMT]

It's a waste of time because YOU are setting the conditions, and they are invalid.

That is not how dialogue is conducted.

And I assume nothing about your capacity to follow your own criteria for two reasons which are obvious; the first is related to the previously mentioned inclusion of invalid sources, and the second is related to our obvious ability to look at the material you've provided and actually see the methods you use.

As I see it, you are saying this; we will compete on a level playing field where I can cheat and you have to tie your hands behind your back.

Even in the absence of this discrepancy, I still consider such an endeavor to be a waste of time because I have NO TIME to engage in a discussion like this which allows the use of anecdotes and non-academic sources. No self-respecting person would.

Have a nice week...this isn't for me. And I'm pretty sure you won't get any traction out of suggesting that I'm afraid to engage in the discussion, because both friend and foe here will probably disagree.

I never suggested you were afraid of anything, nor would I. I don't make assumptions about you, I don't know you.

I presented those sources as a quick rebuttal. Had I known that this was going to turn into an academic pursuit, perhaps I would have picked different. People were free to draw any conclusions they wanted from them and indeed they did.

I'm not cheating at anything.

You continually repeat that this is a waste of your time yet you continue to post. No one is forcing to post, or to remain silent for that matter. I can not control what you decide to do, if you think your time is being wasted, stop wasting it.

You have a nice week as well.

[herring_RN, ASN, BSN]

http://wac.colostate.edu/llad/v5n1/sorrell.pdf

[Honnête et Sérieux]

I never suggested you were afraid of anything, nor would I. I don't make assumptions about you, I don't know you.

I presented those sources as a quick rebuttal. Had I known that this was going to turn into an academic pursuit, perhaps I would have picked different. People were free to draw any conclusions they wanted from them and indeed they did.

I'm not cheating at anything.

You continually repeat that this is a waste of your time yet you continue to post. No one is forcing to post, or to remain silent for that matter. I can not control what you decide to do, if you think your time is being wasted, stop wasting it.

You have a nice week as well.

I was explaining why I wasn't going to engage on your chosen topic according to the rules you picked. It's an entirely different discussion.

I am more confident now that I made the right decision...

[hillarypeace2006]

i think a persons health should be a right, not a privelege...

I think our generation just does. Many of us have watched our parents on a slow decline and watched them face near financial ruin.

[lindarn]

I'm not following you; health is a condition, not a political construct.

Are you saying healthCARE should be a right?

So what? How does this make any difference?

I choose to not disagree, because it doesn't make any difference if you define it as a right or a privilege or a religion or a color. Defining it as a right simply means that the gov't cannot legally deny you the right to pursue whatever healthcare you might want. It doesn't mean they have any obligation to provide it. Nowhere in the preamble or the bill of rights is it listed that the gov't will give you the substance of these rights, but will only protect your own ability to pursue those rights...i.e. to own a gun, say what you want, be free from unreasonable search and seizure...to name a few.

Just because it doesn't explicity state in the Constitution that "health care is an unalienable right", up there with "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", one can extrapolate that one cannot have, "life, liberty and pursue happiness", if one has a health condition that costs thousands of dollars to treat, or one loses their life savings, home, etc, to pay for the right to just live.

I don't think that our Founding Fathers would have wanted the American people to suffer the way we are, due to the strains that health care, or lack thereof, is causing this country. If it could have been foreseen by them, I truly believe that it would have been included in the Constitution. I also truly believe that if they were alive today they would be appalled at the excuses that some "Americans" think is their God Given right to deprive their fellow citizens of health care in the name of the American culture and what is best for the American people. JMHO and my $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[hillarypeace2006]

Just because it doesn't explicity state in the Constitution that "health care is an unalienable right", up there with "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", one can extrapolate that one cannot have, "life, liberty and pursue happiness", if one has a health condition that costs thousands of dollars to treat, or one loses their life savings, home, etc, to pay for the right to just live.

I don't think that our Founding Fathers would have wanted the American people to suffer the way we are, due to the strains that health care, or lack thereof, is causing this country. If it could have been foreseen by them, I truly believe that it would have been included in the Constitution. I also truly believe that if they were alive today they would be appalled at the excuses that some "Americans" think is their God Given right to deprive their fellow citizens of health care in the name of the American culture and what is best for the American people. JMHO and my $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

Well said Lindarn...common sense from the pac northwest. Happiness is indeed a great difficulty when you are being faced with a treatable illness that you cannot afford to address.