Why Are Nurses Given Such A Bad Rap Today?

fusster · Apr 9, 2005

I understand that the ideal would be to be recognized as not only someone caring and compassionate, but also as someone who has achieved a great deal through hard work and is very intelligent and well-rounded, but I would rather be thought of by others as someone who is caring and compassionate but not too educated and intelligent than someone who is cold and uncaring but very smart and knowledgeable. Yes, when confronted by misconceptions I do try to dispell them, but it's the recognition by my patients that I made a difference in their lives that makes me feel important and want to continue in nursing school (I'm in my second year at a 4-yr school). If not for my patients gratitude and the support of everyone I meet, I would have switched majors the first day of clinicals. Nursing is not the most glamerous job and takes a huge toll on you emotionally, but it is because I make a difference in so many lives that I want to keep doing this, not because I will earn a degree and in doing so be known by all as intelligent. Of course my perspective is way different since most of you are practicing nurses and I am only a student and my perspective may change with time and experience.

sunnyjohn · Apr 9, 2005

Q's? Did Johnson and Johnson run that whole "Dare to Care" campaign by the ANA or did they just run 'gun-ho ' all by themselves

humglum, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2005

I would rather be thought of by others as someone who is caring and compassionate but not too educated and intelligent than someone who is cold and uncaring but very smart and knowledgeable.

Now, see, I totally disagree here. I would rather be seen as a skilled, intelligent professional than someone caring but uneducated. I don't think its necessary to care about your patients in order to be an effective nurse. If I have competent assessment and critical thinking skills, I can recognize changes in your condition, act on them, and achieve the best possible outcome without caring much about my patients as people. Its important to care for your patients, but not necessarily about them.

I'm a nurse for special needs/autistic/CP kids, and while I do care about them (because they're kids, sometimes from abusive households, not quite vocal enough to stick up for themselves), I never really cared about my average adult patient. Cared for them, yes. Gave them the best possible nursing care, and was always interested in their outcomes, but I definitely never made an emotional investment in them. Part of it is probably that I'm not an overemotive, super sensitive person... but another part of it is that, as a nurse, if you make an emotional investment in and care about every single one of your patients, it makes it difficult to leave your job at the door when you go home. When will you be finished? How stressful would that be?

This is a great thread, cheerfuldoer. Thanks for starting it.

humglum, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2005

Q's? Did Johnson and Johnson run that whole "Dare to Care" campaign by the ANA or did they just run 'gun-ho ' all by themselves

I don't see that its endorsed by the ANA. This is what I've found on my first page of google results:

from Minority Nurse

Discover Nursing, J&J's nursing recruitment website

Nurseweek, I think you can watch the segments here

Interestingly, I could find very little on the old ad campaign sponsored by ANA: "If caring were enough, anyone could be a nurse". That's a tagline I'll buy. "Dare to care?" Not so much.

sunnyjohn · Apr 9, 2005

I don't see that its endorsed by the ANA. This is what I've found on my first page of google results:
from Minority Nurse
Discover Nursing, J&J's nursing recruitment website
Nurseweek, I think you can watch the segments here
Interestingly, I could find very little on the old ad campaign sponsored by ANA: "If caring were enough, anyone could be a nurse". That's a tagline I'll buy. "Dare to care?" Not so much.

You know I really feel J&J thought they were doing a good thing when they started that campaign. "Dare to Care" did seem geared to appeal to a certain part of the human psyche, the need to find meaning and to contribute through work and service.

We spend so much of our lives at work that many people do look to make it meaningful, more than a paycheck.

Around the time they introduced these ads the collective American consciousness' was still very bruised. It was close to 9/11 and timed to coincide with the 2002 Olympics when ideas such as 'achievement through self-sacrifice' and 'national pride' are always running high.

From an ad exec stand point the campaign was a success.

True, most nurses do find a great deal of personal satisfaction in their profession. But, I don't think anyone should think the "purpose of their life" can be found solely in their profession.

Professionalism, that is the part of the equation J & J missed. What made the campaign unsuccessful was it's heavy focus on caring and lack of focus on professionalism.

Professionalism needs to be linked with caring in order to remove the stereotypical image in society's 'mind's eye'.

Nurses already know they are professionals. Many in the public know they are professional. Paint a new picture and the ideas and attitudes will change.

Just my 2 cents....

Agape.

RN4NICU, LPN, LVN · Apr 9, 2005

Now, see, I totally disagree here. I would rather be seen as a skilled, intelligent professional than someone caring but uneducated. I don't think its necessary to care about your patients in order to be an effective nurse. If I have competent assessment and critical thinking skills, I can recognize changes in your condition, act on them, and achieve the best possible outcome without caring much about my patients as people. Its important to care for your patients, but not necessarily about them.

Well said, CharmCity,

ITA

MryRose · Apr 9, 2005

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with not having to care about about the patients to provide good care.

Again I am going to say that I am still pre-nursing student..... however... at 45 and with a lot of friends who ARE nurses caring about the patients is what keeps them in the job. I was the only one who went into programming instead of nursing from high school.... silly me!

I enjoy listening to them tell about how their patients are doing (within HIPPA guidelines of course) and how they "felt" about their progress or lack thereof.

The excitement when patient A made a major milestone in his/her recovery etc. The sadness that patient B learned he has an incurable illness, and the confidence to know how to make him comfortable. THAT is what nursing is to them. The money is good (CA), they are seen as professionals here, but it's the patients that keep them going.

Of course, there are the complaints about shortages, hours, etc. etc. etc. Nobody does it for the those reasons.. who would??

I think that Nurses can portray themselves as both educated professionals and caring nurturing people. It's what the patients want and need.

Why do a job as difficult as Nursing, with the conditions that are out there if you are not getting an emotional reward from it all?

Hugs!

MaryRose

FYI... when deciding to go into the profession, I took a CNA course and worked in LTC to see how I liked it. Just so ya know I am not looking thru rose colored glasses completely! :)

humglum, BSN, RN · Apr 9, 2005

I'd have to wonder what type of nursing those people are in, Mary Rose, that they can be so invested in a single patient's recovery. Perhaps in a subacute environment, you are with a patient longer and may become invested in them and their progress. In acute care, you're rarely interacting with a patient long enough for them to reach a "milestone" (unless its that patient being extubated, or something of that nature). I think its great that these nurses care about their patients so much, and that's what is rewarding to them about nursing.

I just think the stereotype as nurses as unskilled nurturers/caregivers/angels is distressing and remarkably unhelpful to nurses as a profession and as individual healthcare providers.

I don't think patients want to know that I care about them. Patients want to know that I'm competent, skilled, licensed, and will act in their best interest. I can make small talk with a patient, talk about his or her children, career, whatever, while I'm administering blood or doing a focused assessment. I'm unvariably interested in someone's outcome after they leave my facility. So, I'm interested in people, I care and advocate for them, I assure them the best outcome and nursing care possible while I'm on for that shift and then, its over. I don't hug or kiss patients, I don't contact them outside of the facility, they don't become friends of the family. Its a job.

And, frankly, its people that insist on referring to nurse as "a calling", saying they are a nurse because they care so much about everybody, that they would be nurturing caregivers even without decent salaries... those are the people that prevent nursing from being the profession it could be. I was not called to this profession, I chose it. I'm an excellent nurse with top notch assessment and intervention skills and a valuable member of the health care team. I deserve to be compensated as such.

NYERNURSE · Apr 9, 2005

And, frankly, its people that insist on referring to nurse as "a calling", saying they are a nurse because they care so much about everybody, that they would be nurturing caregivers even without decent salaries... those are the people that prevent nursing from being the profession it could be. I was not called to this profession, I chose it. I'm an excellent nurse with top notch assessment and intervention skills and a valuable member of the health care team. I deserve to be compensated as such.

:yeah: I'm not busting my hump to wear a dang halo. I also view RN's as healthcare professionals not in the same class as nuns or missionaries. I certainly didn't take a vow of poverty when I enrolled in college.

UM Review RN, ASN, RN · Apr 9, 2005

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with not having to care about about the patients to provide good care.

I don't think patients want to know that I care about them. Patients want to know that I'm competent, skilled, licensed, and will act in their best interest.

Once again, we are victims of our own--as well as patients'--perceptions.

Let me give you an example.

Is the nurse who cleans the feet of a homeless person doing it because that nurse "cares" about the person?

Or is she cleaning those feet and pushing away her own feelings of repugnance, because she knows, as a skilled professional, that there could be a life-threatening wound hiding under all that dirt?

The victim believes that the nurse must really care for him to be able to hold her nose and function; he has no idea that there are sound medical reasons for what she is doing.

Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing to care about people, but the point that Charm is trying to make is that management has manipulated our emotions and downplayed the importance of our scientific expertise so that the public really believes that we're being paid what we're worth.

We are. If all we do is hold hands, empty bedpans, and assist the doctor. If all we are is "an angel of mercy," "a servant," or "following a call."

But the bottom line is--are we getting the compensation that we deserve as skilled professionals who are trained to recognize and correct alterations in people's health?

Some of us will throw the caring martyr stereotype in for free. The rest of us want to be able to negotiate a fair salary without being undermined by the "caring martyr," "noble cause" stereotype. But none of us should allow our profession and persons to be defined and manipulated by non-nurses. And that's exactly what's been happening for a long time.

MryRose · Apr 9, 2005

I'd have to wonder what type of nursing those people are in, Mary Rose, that they can be so invested in a single patient's recovery. Perhaps in a subacute environment, you are with a patient longer and may become invested in them and their progress. In acute care, you're rarely interacting with a patient long enough for them to reach a "milestone" (unless its that patient being extubated, or something of that nature). I think its great that these nurses care about their patients so much, and that's what is rewarding to them about nursing.
Med Surg, NICU & Peds.... yes, of course, extubation is a an example I am talking about. I would think that each specialty would have it's own "milestones" regardless of how long a patient is in your care... even if the milestone is going to another unit.... progess is progress.
I just think the stereotype as nurses as unskilled nurturers/caregivers/angels is distressing and remarkably unhelpful to nurses as a profession and as individual healthcare providers.
I respectfully disagree with you ..... Nursing is a caregiving profession. It's the core of what is done... caring for others. I do respect your opinion, just that mine is different. To me it's a combination of caring and technological skills.
I don't think patients want to know that I care about them. Patients want to know that I'm competent, skilled, licensed, and will act in their best interest.
Having been a patient several times, I strongly disagree. I could immediately tell who cared about me as they were doing their job and who was was just doing their job. I felt less stress with the nurses who cared.
I can make small talk with a patient, talk about his or her children, career, whatever, while I'm administering blood or doing a focused assessment. I'm unvariably interested in someone's outcome after they leave my facility. So, I'm interested in people, I care and advocate for them, I assure them the best outcome and nursing care possible while I'm on for that shift and then, its over.
Sometimes it's the small talk that matters. Hey when the shift is over, you do have to separate yourself from work to home. I'm certainly not saying to be involved with your patients from home, that's not healthy for anyone.
I don't hug or kiss patients, I don't contact them outside of the facility, they don't become friends of the family. Its a job.
I am not advocating anyone do this either.... tho I will give a HUG or hold a hand if a patient wants it.
Contacting patients at home is not anything I would be comfortable doing either.
And, frankly, its people that insist on referring to nurse as "a calling", saying they are a nurse because they care so much about everybody, that they would be nurturing caregivers even without decent salaries... those are the people that prevent nursing from being the profession it could be. I was not called to this profession, I chose it. I'm an excellent nurse with top notch assessment and intervention skills and a valuable member of the health care team. I deserve to be compensated as such.

Again, I disagree. If I wanted to be just a nurturer I would go work at the local homeless shelter, volunteer or spend my time elsewhere.

I am going into this profession because I want to make a difference.

Though we are not wealthy, I am not getting my Nursing degree for the money. I'm Blessed that my husband has a great job, savings, homes etc. Even tho I am not going into this for the paycheck, I feel that Nurses should be well compensated for the education, technical knowledge and work that they do. I will not be doing this for free or for low wages either.

Eventually I will probably end up teaching...... I also like that part of nursing as well.

I like the cutesy stuff... the cupie pic at left represents my Nana... who collected them and how proud she would be of me doing this. I find nothing degrading to the profession in that.

What I do find disrespectful is the phrase "I'm only a Nurse", letting anyone be disrespectful. Nursing is a Profession that should be respected. I think that nurturing and caring are just a part of it.

I guess we all have different opinions. I do respect yours, I think there are others who have mine as well. :)

Hugs!

MaryRose

PS the Bold type is to separate our comments, not meant any other way.

MryRose · Apr 9, 2005

Once again, we are victims of our own--as well as patients'--perceptions.
Let me give you an example.
Is the nurse who cleans the feet of a homeless person doing it because that nurse "cares" about the person?
Or is she cleaning those feet and pushing away her own feelings of repugnance, because she knows, as a skilled professional, that there could be a life-threatening wound hiding under all that dirt?
Why is it so difficult that it can be a combination of both? And because it can be a combination, why would anyone think it shouldn't be fairly compensated?
The victim believes that the nurse must really care for him to be able to hold her nose and function; he has no idea that there are sound medical reasons for what she is doing.
Personally, I don't think it's a bad thing to care about people, but the point that Charm is trying to make is that management has manipulated our emotions and downplayed the importance of our scientific expertise so that the public really believes that we're being paid what we're worth.
We are. If all we do is hold hands, empty bedpans, and assist the doctor. If all we are is "an angel of mercy," "a servant," or "following a call."
But the bottom line is--are we getting the compensation that we deserve as skilled professionals who are trained to recognize and correct alterations in people's health?
That is definitely needed. It seems that banding together for that cause would be more beneficial than stating that because someone views the Profession as caring and nurturing they are creating the problem. It just further muddies the water and management gets to keep pulling in the $$ while we defend each side.
I've wondered why Nurses do not all join a Union? Nursing has the largest number of people than any other profession..... why they do not band together and demand better working conditions, pay etc is crazy.
Some of us will throw the caring martyr stereotype in for free. The rest of us want to be able to negotiate a fair salary without being undermined by the "caring martyr," "noble cause" stereotype. But none of us should allow our profession and persons to be defined and manipulated by non-nurses. And that's exactly what's been happening for a long time.

I agree with you... I have been amazed at some of the deplorable salaries Nurses are getting across the country. I cannot imagine why.

It's way past time that Administration needs to earn less and Nurses more. Again, where I am at, CA, it's a little different. The hospitals here know that the UNION facilities pay more and the nurses will go there.

Check out this site.... here is an example of what I am talking about.

http://www.valleychildrens.org/Portal.asp?ID=12

The employees really do like working here. It's a very supportive and caring environment.

There are some facilities I would not work in too. They couldn't pay me enough to be miserable.

Maybe I am reading the posts tooo literally. The posts about nurturing and caring being bad for nursing seem a little "rough" to me. It makes me wonder why don't some people go into computer technology instead of a profession that cares for people. It's highly tedchnical, well compensated and no vomit! lol (little humor.... )

But hey, we are all entitled to our opinions on stuff.... it's what keeps us learning about each other.

I've been watching this forum for 2 years and see the complaints, but not anyone working on a solution. Occassionally a post about legislation, but no continued campaign. Why are people not banding together if not for themselves, then for better patient care (Rn:patient ratios) etc?

I'm not criticizing anyone.... just thinking out loud here. Maybe that is what is meant by this thread and I am just not seeing it.... lol. I'm trying to learn here.:)

I sure wish we could listen to these messages..... sometimes things come across differently than intended.

Hugs!