Where do most of the uninsured live?

[HM2VikingRN]

So, here's the big takeaway: The overwhelming majority of uninsured U.S. residents are adult American citizens without children living in the south with moderately good health status. Oh, and one more thing: They're predominantly white. I didn't make a slide for that, but just trust me. The reason behind that is simple: There are many more white people in the U.S. than there are other persons of any other single race. So, the po' white south makes up most of the uninsured. Chew on that for a while. Then ask yourself where the strongest opposition to health reform comes from (hint: it's red states) and contemplate how much sense that makes.

Link embedded.

[whodat1986]

and FYI...my cousin didn't get his healthcare 100% covered by insurance. He's actually in debt because of it. And I'll tell you the same thing he would say about healthcare reform: it's not worth lowering the quality of our healthcare. He will work through the debt, but is just grateful that we have such a great healthcare system that hasn't been ruined by a government takeover.

[HM2VikingRN, RN]

I want to be clear that I do think some type of reform is necessary. I just think what the kind that is in the works currently will DESTROY the great medical care we have currently. It will most likely mean lower quality healthcare. It will take a lot longer than a year to form a plan to get the kind of reform needed.

Google Myths and Memes by Gehlmann. (pnhp.org)

If you click on the image above you will be led to the background studies showing that our OECD competitors produce superior health care results at lower cost. (Our own VA medical system produces the best overall results of any US system and is an American version of the NHS.) (See also Health of nations at prospect.org)

Newsbusters is not a credible health care information site.

[lamazeteacher]

and FYI...my cousin didn't get his healthcare 100% covered by insurance. He's actually in debt because of it. And I'll tell you the same thing he would say about healthcare reform: it's not worth lowering the quality of our healthcare. He will work through the debt, but is just grateful that we have such a great healthcare system that hasn't been ruined by a government takeover.

Well, "whodat1986", you have a typical American educated person's understanding of our health care, but as you see in HM Viking's response, "That ain't necessarily so". You may want to see Michael Moore's movie "Sicko", to see how good the health care is in other countries that have their own Universal healthcare.

Unfortunately, as that graph in HM Viking's post indicates, for much more money, our outcomes from the healthcare here in the US of A has much worse results, than there are in other countries. There has been a lot of propaganda we wanted to believe about how superior the care given in our country, is due to a belief that anything wer have is the best in the whole world. I hate to write this, but it's not true!

Doctors entering medical school here, for the past 3 decades had dollar bills in their eyes, rather than the glory of providing the best care possible without doing any harm. Tragically, much deceit and criminal neglect has been shown upon investigations of doctors practises done by Medicare auditors. Two doctors recently in the news were guilty of causing extensions of their patients' conditions, and one had his license removed, after "earning $3+ million dollars yearly. The other one, who continues to practise, gets over $7 million/year.......

Other doctors have been found guilty of wrongful surgeries - removal of the wrong limbs and organs...... Until the bypassing of more than 4 coronary arteries was stopped by laws forbidding it, there was escalating numbers of bypasses, when it was known that fewer bypasses yielded better results. We've all experienced bottlenecks in traffic when many roads flow into one or two major arteries (highways). The same thing happens in the heart, when more vessels than are necessary merge.

Doctors have been given a choice of employing Nurse Practitioners and have been their sole supervisors, which meant that those well educated professionals dared not report their employer, and still be able to practise. When the revised Reform of Health Care bill goes through (with or without Republican representatives' support), they'll be the frontliners providing primary care with supervision by their peers. Their salaries will be appropriate and reflect the work they do, rather than the largess of their employers.

Psychiatric patients will have the same coverage of their care as medical and surgical patients do now. Preventive measures will be taken through public education based on high risk groups; and no existing conditions or age related reasons will be used as indicators of eligibility for their treatment. Triage of care will prevent overcrowded ERs, with doctors working evenings in after hour clinics. Many doctors now instruct patients as I was, to go to the ED when they're off duty. When I did have to go by ambulance to the ER, I wasn't seen for 4 hours, while hemorrhaging from gastric ulcers - even though my past history of that had been given ER personnel, by the EMTs. No preliminary tests were done to assess the status of my blood loss.

The worst thing about medical care here, is the proliferation of high profit making, terrible nursing home situations, where abuses have been allowed to occur regularly. Somehow our aging population is relegated to those places that appear like luxury hotels, but many deliver destructive care.

It's much less expensive for geriatric patients to remain at home with 24 hour care providers, and familiar surroundings. With case managers assuring that plans of care are executed humanely and appropriately, that can be much safer, and certainly less noisy with less intrusion on patients' privacy. When possible and appropriate, day care centers for seniors provide socialisation as well as nursing supervision to detect changes in conditions, and compliance/effectiveness of medications.

With revision of health care, there will be concentrated efforts to provide the latest in medical equipment, rather than the latest in high fashion decor, fountains, etc. at hospital entrances. Those who live in rural areas will have more and better medical care there, utilizing computer images to consult with expert consultants at medical teaching centers. Remember that it will be planned and run by health professionals, not politicians.

We now have far too many doctors in big cities, and too few who serve rural areas.

Medical students' might be given the opportunity of having their education funded by the government if they commit in a written agreement, to setting up their practise in areas where there are too few doctors. Pharmaceutical companies that received grant monies to develop their products (all of them do that), will be made to charge far less for them. Other countries (such as Canada) have negotiated much lower prices for medications and receive the same high quality products.

One of the favorite preoccupations in our country is bad mouthing politicians that others have elected, while those complaining loudly sometimes didn't exercise their right to vote, or become well informed about issues. When children hear that sort of grumbling, one can't expect them to respect government, and they grow up with the same mind set their parents have - that our government can't be expected to function properly. How many schools have sent classes to witness the congress and senate at work? Probably few, as it could be very hard to answer the kids' questions about the arguments and posturing that occurs there. Where were the poli-sci educators when special indulgence was incurred to obtain votes to pass measures?

So please expect a positive result from the Reform of Health Care, as well as superior results; and be well informed team workers who are responsible consumers as well.

[tewdles, RN]

and FYI...my cousin didn't get his healthcare 100% covered by insurance. He's actually in debt because of it. And I'll tell you the same thing he would say about healthcare reform: it's not worth lowering the quality of our healthcare. He will work through the debt, but is just grateful that we have such a great healthcare system that hasn't been ruined by a government takeover.

Your last comment sounded just like it came out of the mouth of Glen Beck or Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh or Sarah Palin or....you fill in the blank with the name of an entertainer who makes a living out of telling people how they should feel and think about a topic. I would suggest you listen to less commentary from either political extreme and just plain do more research and reading.

That is wonderful that your cousin had a good outcome. Unfortunately you cannot apparently see how sad it is that he now has a debt because of his care...and another incident may tip him into bankrupcy...what is "great" about that system?

[whodat1986]

This will be my last comment on this subject, as it's clear that personal opinions sometimes cannot be swayed (and I mean this from either standpoint) and I have reached my 15th comment so that I can now private message.

Have you seen the number of doctors who have said they will quit if a government takeover of healthcare occurs? We will be in a serious crisis if all of those people went through on their word. The problem here is that people believe everyone should make in certain a range of salaries, regardless of education, skill level, etc., to be "fair" to everyone. I believe doctors deserve every penny that earn because I understand how hard it is to go through pre-med and med school. I have numerous friends in med school and a couple currently doing residency. It is HELL. Probably one of the most difficult careers to prepare for. Not to mention expensive. And don't even get me started on the malpractice insurance that doctors have to pay because so many people are so sue-happy. And I don't really see how government thinks they can pay for people's med school education, which runs on average in the 6 figures, sometimes 7. Our government simply cannot spend anymore money.

A few isolated incidences of corrupt doctors does not change the fact. You have that in every profession, whether healthcare, teaching, business. You name it. The fact is people are not always good no matter what career they choose. Hell, tons of auto mechanics have tried to rip me off when they see that I'm a girl who probably doesn't know a thing about cars (they're right). Point is, the vast majority of doctors are good people who do an excellent job and went through hell to get to where they are, and they EARNED the right to make the salaries they do.

As for the chart, you will see at the bottom it says that it is not a "credible source", in their own words. I will take the information I receive from actual patients I have had in the ER and people I've met or read about who came from some of the countries listed with the "better and cheaper" healthcare (especially Canada and Britain). They have said that for many minor and major surgeries, they would have been on waiting lists much longer in their respective countries, and often they said they feel the outcomes wouldn't have been as good as they would have here. I forgot who the politician was (someone from Britain or Canada) who said the U.S. needed their kind of healthcare, yet came to America for one of his major surgeries! Throughout my experiences in the hospital, I have met countless nurses from other countries (some with universal healthcare) who say they came to the U.S. because they make better salaries and are more respected.

I know we're not as healthy as some countries. If you actually look into why, it's not because of healthcare or a lack of. It's because of nutrition and lack of exercise (for which I am glad the Obama administration is trying to increase awareness of).

I refuse to watch any documentaries made by Michael Moore. I think he is far too radical and, to be honest, I think he's downright crazy. I don't identify with either political party and I certainly won't support their radicals. I am an independent conservative and for any upcoming elections, I will vote for anyone who truly wants to decrease government spending, cut taxes, and does not want a government takeover of healthcare, regardless of political party.

I don't know about Canada receiving the same drugs as we do at lower costs, but if you really think about it...many of those people are encouraged to research and develop drugs by the MONEY. If they didn't receive the money, they may go into another profession. Sad that people are motivated so much by money, but that is the truth.

You say people in this country are apathetic went voting time rolls around, but then complain. Well, I did vote and I am complaining. The problem for me is, I don't think we are being presented with many politicians who can actually handle the job honestly and bravely enough to do what is best for the country. Doing what is best will not always make you popular, and politicians live for their approval ratings. I will not be comfortable accepting positive outcomes from anything the government does, because I simply have no faith in the people in control. Now, I know there are a few gems out there (from both parties), but as a whole, our government is run by corrupt politicians who wouldn't know the right thing to do if it slapped them in the face. And before the democrats out there feel I'm bashing their president, I am but I would probably say much of the same about McCain had he been elected (although I do feel he wouldn't have been quite as extreme with some of his decisions). Face it. When 50-something % of the country says they do not want healthcare reform, and only 30-something % does, I think we need to reconsider ramming it through as Obama and Pelosi are so aiming to do.

As far as the comment about Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Sarah Palin. It's funny that you would include Glenn Beck in there. Yes, I do listen to him every night. He also does not identify with either party. I listened to him criticize Bush and now I'm listening to him criticize Obama. So, no. He's not one of the political extremes. He may be conservative, but you can be a conservative democrat. He says constantly that the problem is progessives, from either party. And I doubt you will, since you are so opposed to him, but I would encourage anyone to listen to him 2 or 3 times. He is very intelligent, and seems to be one of the only people who has a clue right now. There are also plenty of democratic entertainers who "make a living out of telling people how they should feel and think about a topic." I also do research and read, but every point I read that's for an increase in taxes, or unions, or universal healthcare, or more spending, or whatever, I can find so many other points through my researching and reading and Glenn Beck-watching that so aptly exposes every argument for them. He comes on tonight at 5pm Eastern time, and I think tonight is doing a quiz to see exactly what political ideology you fit with. I would encourage anyone to watch it, because he actually makes excellent points. :)

[tewdles, RN]

this will be my last comment on this subject, as it's clear that personal opinions sometimes cannot be swayed (and i mean this from either standpoint) and i have reached my 15th comment so that i can now private message.

have you seen the number of doctors who have said they will quit if a government takeover of healthcare occurs? we will be in a serious crisis if all of those people went through on their word. we have a crisis now. doctors threatened to quit when congress proposed medicare...didn't really happen did it?the problem here is that people believe everyone should make in certain a range of salaries, regardless of education, skill level, etc., to be "fair" to everyone.i cannot make out exactly what your point was here. i suspect is has to do with universal access to health care and how it should be related to our education, skill level, ability to pay? if that's not it you have me stymied. i believe doctors deserve every penny that earn because i understand how hard it is to go through pre-med and med school. i have numerous friends in med school and a couple currently doing residency. it is hell. probably one of the most difficult careers to prepare for. not to mention expensive. and don't even get me started on the malpractice insurance that doctors have to pay because so many people are so sue-happy. and i don't really see how government thinks they can pay for people's med school education, which runs on average in the 6 figures, sometimes 7. our government simply cannot spend anymore money. [color=#800080]and this is pertinent to the discussion of health insurance how? anyone who has worked in health care for long knows doctors...so???

a few isolated incidences of corrupt doctors does not change the fact. [color=#800080]what fact?you have that in every profession, whether healthcare, teaching, business. you name it. the fact is people are not always good no matter what career they choose. hell, tons of auto mechanics have tried to rip me off when they see that i'm a girl who probably doesn't know a thing about cars (they're right). point is, the vast majority of doctors are good people who do an excellent job and went through hell to get to where they are, and they earned the right to make the salaries they do.[color=#800080]and this is pertinent to the discussion of health insurance how?

as for the chart, you will see at the bottom it says that it is not a "credible source", in their own words. [color=#800080]please read that post a bit more carefully.i will take the information i receive from actual patients i have had in the er and people i've met or read about who came from some of the countries listed with the "better and cheaper" healthcare (especially canada and britain). they have said that for many minor and major surgeries, they would have been on waiting lists much longer in their respective countries, and often they said they feel the outcomes wouldn't have been as good as they would have here. i forgot who the politician was (someone from britain or canada)[color=#800080](canadian prime minister ring a bell?) who said the u.s. needed their kind of healthcare, yet came to america for one of his major surgeries! throughout my experiences in the hospital, i have met countless nurses from other countries (some with universal healthcare) who say they came to the u.s. because they make better salaries and are more respected. [color=#800080]again, this is pertinent to the discussion of health insurance how?

i know we're not as healthy as some countries. if you actually look into why, it's not because of healthcare or a lack of. it's because of nutrition and lack of exercise (for which i am glad the obama administration is trying to increase awareness of). [color=#800080]you seriously need to research these things before you make these type of statements.

i refuse to watch any documentaries made by michael moore. i think he is far too radical and, to be honest, i think he's downright crazy. i don't identify with either political party and i certainly won't support their radicals. i am an independent conservative and for any upcoming elections, i will vote for anyone who truly wants to decrease government spending, cut taxes, and does not want a government takeover of healthcare, regardless of political party. [color=#800080]"government takeover" is, once again, language used by the talking heads to inflame and divide rather than to engage the people in conversation. that tactic is working well, don't you think"\?

i don't know about canada receiving the same drugs as we do at lower costs[color=#800080]again, i recommend that you do some research, the info is easy to find...americans pay for the r&d and the advertising in their medication costs...the rest of the world does not., but if you really think about it...many of those people are encouraged to research and develop drugs by the money. if they didn't receive the money, they may go into another profession. sad that people are motivated so much by money, but that is the truth. [color=#800080]so let them quit, there will be bright and motivated people who will be willing to do it for a reasonable salary and the ability to pursue something they have a passion for ie: research.

you say people in this country are apathetic went voting time rolls around, but then complain. well, i did vote and i am complaining. the problem for me is, i don't think we are being presented with many politicians who can actually handle the job honestly and bravely enough to do what is best for the country. doing what is best will not always make you popular, and politicians live for their approval ratings. i will not be comfortable accepting positive outcomes from anything the government does, because i simply have no faith in the people in control. now, i know there are a few gems out there (from both parties), but as a whole, our government is run by corrupt politicians who wouldn't know the right thing to do if it slapped them in the face. and before the democrats out there feel i'm bashing their president, i am but i would probably say much of the same about mccain had he been elected (although i do feel he wouldn't have been quite as extreme with some of his decisions). face it. when 50-something % of the country says they do not want healthcare reform, and only 30-something % does, i think we need to reconsider ramming it through as obama and pelosi are so aiming to do.polls ask people specific questions and do not ask specific questions based upon what the poller is trying to accomplish. politicians may live and die by polls but the rest of america, not so much.

as far as the comment about glenn beck, sean hannity, rush limbaugh, and sarah palin. it's funny that you would include glenn beck in there. yes, i do listen to him every night. he also does not identify with either party. i listened to him criticize bush and now i'm listening to him criticize obama. so, no. he's not one of the political extremes. he may be conservative, but you can be a conservative democrat. [color=#800080]if you read my post to you closely you will notice that i did not mention a political party or preference...i could have just as easily mentioned olberman or maddow except that your thinking is clearly colored by the opposition to this reform and of course, rules them out. my point is that you do not, i do not, none of us need people like beck to tell us how we should think or feel about these things. the 24 hour news cycle has replaced reporting with commentary...and too many people think that they are the same. they are not.he says constantly that the problem is progessives, from either party. [color=#800080]why do we care what he says at all? it is his opinion, and really, who is he that his opinion should be influencing millions of people?and i doubt you will, since you are so opposed to him, but i would encourage anyone to listen to him 2 or 3 times. he is very intelligent, and seems to be one of the only people who has a clue right now. there are also plenty of democratic entertainers [color=#800080]they are all the same...we don't need their opinions in order to form our own...period.who "make a living out of telling people how they should feel and think about a topic." i also do research and read, but every point i read that's for an increase in taxes, or unions, or universal healthcare, or more spending, or whatever, i can find so many other points through my researching and reading and glenn beck-watching that so aptly exposes every argument for them. he comes on tonight at 5pm eastern time, and i think tonight is doing a quiz to see exactly what political ideology you fit with. [color=#800080]why should we care what "political ideology" we fit with??? that is not pertinent to anything...we do not have to be a this or a that to care, read, inform ourselves and vote!i would encourage anyone to watch it, because he actually makes excellent points. :)

[color=#800080]wouldn't watch it on a bet...it has nothing for me...just propaganda and divisive language, i will play with my grand daughter instead.

[lamazeteacher]

have you seen the number of doctors who have said they will quit if a government takeover of healthcare occurs? we will be in a serious crisis if all of those people went through on their word.

and they won't keep to that word, because they are unprepared to do anything else for their living. it's just a silly argumentative tack, simiular to the kid who gets upset with his/her playmates and says, "i'm not playing with you any more!" i've been around hundereds of doctors, at work and socially, in canada and the usa during their training, internships and residencies and on into their practice of medicine. let me tell you that their paramount goal is to make as much money, if not more than anyone else on earth (especially lawyers who in turn resent what doctors make - babies). they dream of the pretty women, grandiose cars and homes they'll have. i haven't heard a physician in the usa say, ever that they want to spare people illness and pain! in canada that is what they study to do, and what they express in their work, is their goal.

the problem here is that people believe everyone should make in certain a range of salaries, regardless of education, skill level, etc., to be "fair" to everyone. actually they haven't shown any interest in fairness, just making more money...... i have numerous friends in med school and a couple currently doing residency. it is hell.

hell was how it used to be, when there were no days off for interns, who made the lowest wages (in canada) even under that of street cleaners! now they get days off after nights on! they make well above nurses' salaries while in internship and residency!

probably one of the most difficult careers to prepare for. not to mention expensive. that depends on how bright they are. those who borrow money for school often didn't read the terms of their loans, or realized that they could "shop" for better ones, much less investigate the programs that cover medical school costs if would-be doctors will agree to spend their first 2 years of practice in areas where there are no doctors. and don't even get me started on the malpractice insurance that doctors have to pay because so many people are so sue-happy.

doctors do not have to pay the extortionist premiums that malpractise insurance companies charge (have you ever heard of an insurance company that doesn't make billions, yearly - after costs! the way to avoid lawsuits is to explain everything thoroughly to patients, about their conditions and the plan to treat them, describing their role in that, in a friendly manner; and to do their jobs ethically, with concern for their patients. if you were to talk to those who sue doctors, you'd find that something tactless or downright nasty the doctor said or did, ticked them off before it became apparant that standards of good care weren't upheld.

a friend who was an ob (he is deceased), had a marvelous manner with his patients,l and a sign in his waiting room that said, "i have no malpractise insurance. i live in an average home, and have an inexpensive car."

and i don't really see how government thinks they can pay for people's med school education, which runs on average in the 6 figures, sometimes 7. our government simply cannot spend anymore money. no, they can't, so they'll decrease the costs of education. believe me, the hikes in the cost of education aren't for higher professors' salaries or smaller numbers of students to professors, employing more of them. the money goes to building funds and lovely high priced furniture for school administrators' offices that decorators are given all the money they want for their services. i believe that doctors' fees need to be standardized at the medicare level of compensation (without the 20% additional), which is plenty! yet the complaints heard about those payments are monumental.

recently a couple of corrupt doctors stood trial for their indescretions. one of them lost his right to practice medicine further, and went to prison for a year. he'd made $3-4 million dollars yearsly for decades! the one who was allowed to continue his work as a surgeon with increased supervision, makes $7.5 million/year! read the newspapers, now while you're waiting to get into nursing school; and you'll learn a lot about the economics of medicine and education, there. it was well known in the '50s to '70s, that doctors were very poor businessmen and women. that was because their priorities were the practice of medicine, rather than creating mounds of money.

as for the chart, you will see at the bottom it says that it is not a "credible source", in their own words. i will take the information i receive from actual patients i have had in the er and people i've met or read about who came from some of the countries listed with the "better and cheaper" healthcare (especially canada and britain). they have said that for many minor and major surgeries, they would have been on waiting lists much longer in their respective countries, and often they said they feel the outcomes wouldn't have been as good as they would have here. i'm canadian educated, and was told when i arrived in the usa, that graduates from canadian schools of nursing were preferred here. so i was very impressed to find their skills to be excellent. unfortunately they usually make a point of leaving work on time, no matter how poor the staffing is, for the next shift or what hasn't been accomplished on theirs.......i forgot who the politician was (someone from britain or canada) who said the u.s. needed their kind of healthcare, yet came to america for one of his major surgeries! throughout my experiences in the hospital, i have met countless nurses from other countries (some with universal healthcare) who say they came to the u.s. because they make better salaries and are more respected. i had more respect in canada. money again, draws nurses here. they do make adequate salaries in canada, and it's less than it is here. what those who come here don't realise, is how expensive the cost of living is, in most us cities.....

i know we're not as healthy as some countries. if you actually look into why, it's not because of healthcare or a lack of. it's because of nutrition and lack of exercise (for which i am glad the obama administration is trying to increase awareness of).

i refuse to watch any documentaries made by michael moore. that's too bad, because his films are checked for accuracy by many agencies, since some license was used on statistics in his first one. in "sicko" what you may think was carazy, was simply funny, especially when he went to banks with a pillowcase for money advanced the banks, asking for tax payers' money back after the bailouts, when supersized bonuses were given vps.

i don't know about canada receiving the same drugs as we do at lower costs, (i do know that the drugs are the same, although they may be produced in the same company's facilities in canada, where labor costs are lower.) but if you really think about it...many of those people are encouraged to research and develop drugs by the money. if they didn't receive the money, they may go into another profession. sad that people are motivated so much by money, but that is the truth. no one would work if it wasn't for the money, but in the interest of wellbeing for all people, less lofty needs are more appropriate.

you say people in this country are apathetic went voting time rolls around, but then complain. well, i did vote and i am complaining. the problem for me is, i don't think we are being presented with many politicians who can actually handle the job honestly and bravely enough to do what is best for the country. doing what is best will not always make you popular/wealthier, and politicians live for their approval ratings, to continue ion work that has many perks, not the least of which is power. i will not be comfortable accepting positive outcomes from anything the government does, because i simply have no faith in the people in control. now, i know there are a few gems out there (from both parties), but as a whole, our government is run by corrupt politicians who wouldn't know the right thing to do if it slapped them in the face. and before the democrats out there feel i'm bashing their president, i am but i would probably say much of the same about mccain had he been elected (although i do feel he wouldn't have been quite as extreme with some of his decisions). his claim to fame is having been imprisoned in viet nam, where his nutrition was inadequate; and stress level extremely high. he has a heart condition that limits his lifespan, which already has hospitalized him; and looking at his rotund figure, i'd say that he doesn't follow the advice to lower his weight. he becomes over excited, especially about president obama, exaggerating the criticism of few people because miracles need time. face it. when 50-something % of the country says they do not want healthcare reform, and only 30-something % does, i think we need to reconsider ramming it through as obama and pelosi are so aiming to do. in canada the people and most of their representatives didn't get a chance to comment, in the early '60s when their single payer plan was adopted. it was deemed best for all, having been dreamed up by 7 physicians in windsor, ontario (where i worked as a public health nurse at that time); and went through smoothly, due to the peoples' respect for government knowing what needs to be done. there certainly was no outcry from anyone about others benefiting, who hadn't contributed to its costs. i ask my friends and family there if they resent that, and the look scathingly at me, saying they'd never consider it appropriate to deprive anhyone of health care!

as far as the comment about glenn beck, sean hannity, rush limbaugh, and sarah palin. it's funny that you would include glenn beck in there. yes, i do listen to him every night. he also does not identify with either party. i listened to him criticize bush and now i'm listening to him criticize obama. is there anyone he doesn't criticise, anyone he respects? so, no. he's not one of the political extremes. he may be conservative, but you can be a conservative democrat. we certainly know that from the 6 who choose not to be in agreement with anything. he says constantly that the problem is progessives, from either party. and i doubt you will, since you are so opposed to him, but i would encourage anyone to listen to him 2 or 3 times. he is very intelligent, and seems to be one of the only people who has a clue right now. he may make the effort to know what he's talking about, but how do you know whether he selects things to support or denigrate, that aren't in the bill?

there are also plenty of democratic entertainers who "make a living out of telling people how they should feel and think about a topic." i also do research and read, but every point i read that's for an increase in taxes, or unions, or universal healthcare, (which will support itself)or more spending, or whatever, i can find so many other points through my researching and reading and glenn beck-watching that so aptly exposes every argument for them. he comes on tonight at 5pm eastern time, and i think tonight is doing a quiz to see exactly what political ideology you fit with. i would encourage anyone to watch it, because he actually makes excellent points. :)

i think that the political ideology depends on peoples' concern about issues, and reading things about them that aren't necessarily in agreement with their point of view. i'm no longer surprised, but certainly i'm concerned when i see the paucity of information that jay leno elicits when asking the public questions, for his program monday nights, in l.a. they actually think it's funny when they can't answer simple questions about their own country, that were taught to them in elementary school. when you consider who does the voting, you understand why there's so much ignorance in government.

[tewdles, RN]

LOL...we may have bogarted this thread lamazeteacher!

[lamazeteacher]

I think that most of us "live" in our heads, to get back to the topic - so it really doesn't occur to me to place a geographic location for the explosion of uninsured potential patients. Of course, more poor sections of cities might reveal more traditionally uninsured persons, but there, many people could tell someone new to that situation, where to go and what specific words will attain participation for them, in existing government programs.

What the reform of health care would do, is even out the distribution of funds allocated for health care; and keep peoples' "at risk" conditions from causing hospitalization sooner, and increasingly costly treatments. It would also infuse money into health care by collecting monies from those who are working; and lower costs by decreasing outrageous charges from health care providers, EDs and hospital inpatient nosocomial complications (not to mention human error). The advantages of this reformation, far outweigh any (unbased) claims of economic unfeasibility; and less opportunity for care.

The actual problems regarding insurance, are the increasing greed of administrators of those companies' administrators. That causes the unemployment of hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of previously employed people with preexisting conditions and those whose age (55) causes drastic increases in premiums for them, which can't be born by small business employers.

Of course the extremely high COBRA costs prevent most recently unemployed people from keeping their insurance for themselves and their families. The stress of losing employment precipitate many physical declines; and must be taken into account when estimating the cost of such greed. Insurance costs today are far out of line from past premiums/medical costs (not to be confused with charges), while those companies prosper to a level that is obscene! :redlight:

To those who are naysayers to the desperate need for health care reform, I say, "There are none so blind, as those who will not see!" They live in a place called, "I've got mine, Jack!"

[UKRNinUSA, RN]

Well, "whodat1986", you have a typical American educated person's understanding of our health care,

you are too kind Lamaze teacher

[whodat1986]

UKRNinUSA,

I find that when you stick to the subject at hand rather than make personal attacks, you win more arguments. I think that's what most people in this conversation have done.

[UKRNinUSA, RN]

UKRNinUSA, I find that when you stick to the subject at hand rather than make personal attacks, you win more arguments. I think that's what most people in this conversation have done.

Not a personal attack, an observation ( I admit the comment was a little satirical)

Originally Posted by lamazeteacher

"Well, "whodat1986", you have a typical American educated person's understanding of our health care,"

I would disagree with Lamazeteacher's use of the word "educated". To be educated, one has to acquire factual knowledge about a subject. Your postings do not give evidence that you have acquired factual knowledge regarding healthcare reform. However you do seem to have an opinion. Closely mirroring the opinion of Glenn Beck - who is not a journalist but a political commentator who presents his opinion on a TV show.

The Antidefamation League statement on Glenn Beck:

"The most important mainstream media figure who has repeatedly helped to stoke the fires of anti-government anger is right-wing media host Glenn Beck, who has a TV show on FOX News and a popular syndicated radio show. While other conservative media hosts, such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, routinely attack Obama and his administration, typically on partisan grounds, they have usually dismissed or refused to give a platform to the conspiracy theorists and anti-government extremists. This has not been the case with Glenn Beck. Beck and his guests have made a habit of demonizing President Obama and promoting conspiracy theories about his administration.

On a number of his TV and radio programs, Beck has even gone so far as to make comparisons between Hitler and Obama and to promote the idea that the president is dangerous."

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/rage-grows-in-America/mainstream-media.asp

Just so you know.

You might also want to check out the website http://www.politifact.com

It has a special section for Glenn Beck where you can fact-check the "truthiness" of his statements. http://www.politifact.com/personalities/glenn-beck/statements/

I found a reference to one of your statements on the list of his statements:

"Have you seen the number of doctors who have said they will quit if a government takeover of healthcare occurs?"

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/oct/15/glenn-beck/beck-says-45-percent-physicians-would-quit-if-heal/

The truthometer rates Glenn Beck's assertion that 45% of doctors would quit as false. An informative read.

"I refuse to watch any documentaries made by Michael Moore. I think he is far too radical and, to be honest, I think he's downright crazy."

It's a shame because you will miss a very informative movie. I included a segment of the "Rolling Stone " movie review FYI

"Moore shows us how France, England, Canada and - yikes! - Cuba actually help sick people instead of letting them wither and die for lack of health insurance. Then he instructs us to loot those places for ideas. Anti-American? Hell, no. Moore argues that if another country builds a better car, we buy it. If it crafts a better wine, we drink it. Why not free universal health care?

Look for the reform spirit of Sicko to spark fresh attacks from haters who smear Moore as a fat, shambling, condescending grandstander eager to shade the truth to force a laugh or simplify an issue..............Moore brings a blunt clarity to the table. .........

To prep for the film, Moore used the Internet to solicit health-care horror stories, not just from the 47 million Americans who don't have insurance but from those who do. It's hair-raising, especially when we watch an L.A. hospital dump a dazed patient at a homeless shelter because her insurance has reached its cap. In France, no resident is denied care; that's why the World Health Organization ranks it number one (the U.S. is thirty-seventh).............. the weight of evidence Moore marshals for taking the profit motive out of medicine is overwhelming..........Moore delivers a movie of robust mind and heart. You'll laugh till it hurts."

I'm sure you can still rent the DVD -that is, if you dare!

Another website I would recommend for you in your quest to acquire factual knowledge on the subject is Health Care Reform Myths

http://www.healthcarereformmyths.org/HealthcareReformMyths.php#A28

Happy reading/viewing -then we'll debate!