Where do you draw the line?

[fuuchan]

So, I'm going to be a first year nursing student and I've been poking around allnurses for a while and have met some awesome folks and read some interesting concerns. Now I have one of my own.

I understand that there is a certian amount of...abuse (is that the right word) or flack that I'm going to have to put up with from co-workers, instructors, and patients but my question is, where do you draw the line and say enough is enough? I suppose my curiosity leans more towards, how do you handle this situation with doctors? I understand that they deserve respect because they have a lot of responsibility and have gone through a lot to be where they are, but heck. So have I. I'm pretty sure nursing school is not going to be a walk through Cupcake Town. And the last person to go off on me was my mother and that's because she's my MOTHER. Where do you draw the line as a professional and say enough is enough and stick up for yourself? Thanks, guys. :redpinkhe

[Antikigirl, ASN, RN]

I so understood Earls statment...only because I see what Earl is saying....no not verbatum as servant...but, sorry guys and gals...we are to a higher level then what we interpret as 'servants'. No heck no we don't get physically beat now a days (or do we?), stented with verbal abuse (or do we), or have to do our jobs only to actually be judged by the MD's or worse....the admin! No not like servants!

Oh can I go on to patient care?

No..we are not that way because we can quit....oh wow...that is the main difference...hmmmmmmmmm

All this over someone thought and choice of wordage....well get this

"I tire of prostituting my being and emotions over someone I don't know...but I still do it...and my pimp is an administration that does no6t beat me, but threatens my family by saying if I don't shut up and take it...I will have no money for food or rent! And wow....I thought I was choosing a profession!

stated on blog this year!

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I have and instinct of how to choose my battles, what is worth me asserting myself for and what isn't. Most of the time in my interactions with others, I've been able to step aside and let much of it roll off my back. Mostly when the person is being unfair, unreasonable or rude is when I stand up and speak up, and this includes doctors.

One thing I've also learned is that if it's gets through my thick skin then I deal with it then and there. It does me no good to whine behind their back as soon as they leave about how they treated me. Unless of course opening my mouth might make me say something inappropriate.

[dmjudas]

Well, I have been a RN for 6 years, 3 of which Ive been a charge nurse. When dealing with Physicians that are being rude to me or one of my staff members, I simply tell them, You do not need to be talking to me like that, i dont deserve it and i do not have to allow that, so when you deside to talk to me in a more professional manner, ill be ready to listen.

When i have a patient being foul, i say something along the lines of (depends on the patient situation , however): You are here for medical treatment, I am here to help you and take care of you, but i do not and will not allow you to talk to me this way! 9 times out of 10 it works, they usually appoligize and it doesnt happen again.

In both situations you have got to be firm and mean what you say, if not they can sense it and will devour you.

Good luck & always be strong!

[locolorenzo22, BSN, RN]

Nobody has the right to disrespect you. As a professional, I would ask a physician/co-worker who is upset with me to wait until we are in a private setting and we would maturely discuss what is going on. I will NOT tolerate anyone trying to make me 2 inches tall...

i.e. today a physician sent a back sx patient back to the unit...without orders for activity or if she needed a brace...so I called...he made me feel about 2 inches tall..."ok, activity OOB as tolerated, and no brace needed. thank you." before I had half my question out...like I should have just gone with standard orders...

Well, without them, you know if I got her up and she wasn't supposed to be..it'd be my butt....I'm there to get my patient's info and treat em right...that's all you can do...and don't take it personal.

[Vito Andolini]

This question couldn't have come at a better time for me, and thank you so much Pax Ramona for that link!

The situation is, I work in a medium sized rural hospital that has a huge patient base due to sudden expantion and people moving in. Our hospital can't handle it all. Well, in order to try to make things better we suddenly and without proper training went to computers.

I am quick at computers, and was able to do my best and get things done quickly (without time to actually see or help my patients...GRRRRRRR!). Well...not all the staff is able to handle things this way...and yesterday and the day before, I had a Doc throw a chart at me, been yelled at solid when all I try to do is help, haven't been able to do my job because of all this, and have lost the trust and relationships with my Docs and patients because I can't seem to get anything done because I am busy trying to correct probelms or unprofessional behavior from staff!

My workplace is a harassment right now on every level, and although I am cool and understand that chaos is normal...well, I need to have staff that understands that as well as I do, and tries to be proactive instead of complaining and harrassing about something past! Doesn't anyone care about patient care around my place???

Harassment by patients at this time I can understand, they are getting the bare min of care due to this, and still have to pay the full cost...do I sympathize with them, and have the social skills to turn that around as quickly as I can...but staff!!!!! I shouldn't have to.

WHen that MD threw the chart at me, I asked my overrun Charge nurse (who is a dear sweet gal that never gets flustered...oh she is beyond flustered and is having physical s/sx and I am very worried about her!) who I can report that too...she had no clue...I said "THAT must be changed NOW!".

I have written a probelm/solve list today, will check it again tomorrow to make sure I am not being anywhere near unprofessional (I find a day later a good edit is good!)...and will submit it asking for a protocol and chain of command for harrassment reporting. If I don't get an answer, then I call the BON and State Labor Board!

That link will help tremendously!!!!!! Hello JAC!

Get a lawyer and sue the living doo doo out of that assaultive, battering individual who threw the chart at you.

For OP - I think you will do just fine at not letting anyone walk on you. Awareness of how vicious some people can be is half the battle. Just speak up carefully, calmly, do not make matters worse. Be prepared to take legal action if need be. Good luck with your plans.

[Patti 2nd gen RN]

Not that I know, and I am just entering Nursing school as well, but I would say you are going in with the wrong attitude about this. Don't expect the worse from patients, instructors, or doctors and you will be able to deal with something like that a lot better when and if it does actually happen. Also, every situation is different, each nurse, doctor, patient, and instructor is different so there really isn't an answer for your general question.

I would say don't expect it--but be ready for it---guaranteed you will deal with it soon, hopefully not often, and your response will make an impression on your co-workers and the abuser---role plays help.....pick your mentors wisely....

[Cathlabnurse46]

There is a new law/standard coming out... I beleive it is what PAX pointed out and it is about time. Over the years I have seen plenty of example of bad behavior by Doctors (mostly) that go unchallanged by management and administration. Here are a few example in my career:

My wife was cornered in a pt room while she was recovering a fresh open heart by a

surgeon who planted a kiss on her and tried to grope her (he had a pattern of this.. in fact he later became disabled from hep C).

I saw a surgeon throw a scapel in an OR at a Nurse... he threw a Bovie at a resident (the generator... not the knife... of course this was after the resident defib'd the pt with the surgeon hand in the patient chest and after the surgeon got up off the floor!). But still this Doc was MEAN!

We have a Cardiologist now that a nurse manager recently called security on to remove him from the cath lab because he was so disruptive and threatening saying: "in my country would could have woman like you KILLED". Funny to see a female security guard escort a 5'2" Indian Doc out of the lab after such a statement! LOL.... he's an ass. I've known him for 14 years and he's a chronic, habitual liar. Yet we stay late every Tues, Friday and get called in every weekend he's on for routine stuff because he's big man on campus. Yes we get abused all the time, and much of it is our own fault. Some staff cater too it and encourage it to get OT and CALL PAY. AND HE PLAY ON THAT.

On the other hand, I have had some discrimination as a male by my female co-workers. I once had a female charge nurse give me a bad eval to my manager. My manager disagreed with her and when we got down to it, it was revealed that she just didn't like male nurses... period. She said that men didn't belong in nursing. My view was that the only thing I couldn't do as a female nurse was breast feed!

So you will put up with a ton of crap in nursing. But if you worked in construction... you'd have a lot of crap there too. I think there is much less of that power/subservient thing happening today than ever in my history in nursing. It's much more collaborative today with these docs coming out of school.

[MADHAT6]

i know i draw the line at safety,the patients first,then the staff's,i have had a doctor yell at me,but people yell at me in traffic sometimes too,people get stressed out,someone who has such low boundaries that they yell at you probably yells in the grocery line too,is it right ? of course not but it's not about us...it's about them...it reveals who they are and usually puts them in a bad light in front of other people,i would rather be yelled at than be the one yelling...the very few times someone has been rude or abusive everyone else immediately supported me and became upset with the other person,doctor/staff member or not...usually someone who behaves this way already has a reputation for being disagreeable...i hope this does not happen to you,in 23 years of nursing it has only happened to me once so far:argue::loveya:this is them arguing and you being happy in spite of them

[Vito Andolini]

This question couldn't have come at a better time for me, and thank you so much Pax Ramona for that link!

The situation is, I work in a medium sized rural hospital that has a huge patient base due to sudden expantion and people moving in. Our hospital can't handle it all. Well, in order to try to make things better we suddenly and without proper training went to computers.

I am quick at computers, and was able to do my best and get things done quickly (without time to actually see or help my patients...GRRRRRRR!). Well...not all the staff is able to handle things this way...and yesterday and the day before, I had a Doc throw a chart at me, been yelled at solid when all I try to do is help, haven't been able to do my job because of all this, and have lost the trust and relationships with my Docs and patients because I can't seem to get anything done because I am busy trying to correct probelms or unprofessional behavior from staff!

My workplace is a harassment right now on every level, and although I am cool and understand that chaos is normal...well, I need to have staff that understands that as well as I do, and tries to be proactive instead of complaining and harrassing about something past! Doesn't anyone care about patient care around my place???

Harassment by patients at this time I can understand, they are getting the bare min of care due to this, and still have to pay the full cost...do I sympathize with them, and have the social skills to turn that around as quickly as I can...but staff!!!!! I shouldn't have to.

WHen that MD threw the chart at me, I asked my overrun Charge nurse (who is a dear sweet gal that never gets flustered...oh she is beyond flustered and is having physical s/sx and I am very worried about her!) who I can report that too...she had no clue...I said "THAT must be changed NOW!".

I think you should have reported it to the police. If he hit you with it, it's called assault and battery. Of course, you could have picked it up, thrown it back, and said, "You dropped this." :angryfire