What is the worst case of bullying you've seen in your nursing career?

[Guest878640]

I'm going to start working as soon as I pass the NCLEX. I have heard a lot about bullying in the nursing field. I was wondering what is the most severe form of bullying you've seen in your career? I want to prepare myself psychologically for the worst.

For me, I have heard a clinical director speak of one clinical practicum taking place at a hospital where they were ignored by all the staff. They were not even allowed to take a seat because every time someone sat down, a staff would come and take their seat away from them.

[nursel56]

I find it strange that ANYONE finds it strange to be concerned about bullying in nursing. Nurses are mean to each other in TV shows and movies. People who keep up with news and trends in general will have heard about nursing's 'lateral violence'. Bullying as a topic is huge with schools, as a social media phenomenon. "Public shaming" via Twitter and Facebook is a well known thing, there are books written on it. A person would have to be practically clueless, as an up and coming nurse, to NOT be at least somewhat concerned.

And then they come to post here and asked if they are trolls?

And 'shamed' for even asking about it. As if simple concern and curiosity about such an OBVIOUS nursing issue is a sign of the questioner's bad intentions. I get it that nurses in general are embarrassed or frustrated that this is a well known nursing issue, and that bullying itself is UGLY and no one wants such a thing associated with nursing.

But let's face it and 'be the change' we want to see. Healthcare people bullying each other isn't going to go away by insisting it doesn't exist and 'shaming' people who ask directly about it.

Perhaps it is the geographical location I am in, or maybe I just got lucky, I don't know. I first heard the term "nurses eat their young" on this forum around ten years ago. I have never felt there is a pervasive problem with bullying and lateral violence in nursing.

Nurses are mean to each other in TV shows and movies? Again, I am perplexed by this comment. Nurses are portrayed in many ways in media and have been fixtures of the entertainment world for always. I find that taken as a whole, we are depicted as angels and saints at least as often, but overall the treatment is as all of us are, real people-- warts and all.

Lots of experiences are recounted here on this forum, and quite honestly very few rise to the level any kind of violence in my mind. As a young nurse I dealt with many an unpleasant personality, and some people were probably too brusque in their style of communicating. That's about it, really.

I have observed medical education up close and personal and feel that of the two fields, medicine is much closer to what we might call "bullying". I don't find the public aware of this unspoken issue in nursing at all.

It isn't easy being a new nurse as we know, and I don't think even those crusty old bats here who are accused of eating their young are here for any other reason than to help new nurses navigate the waters.

I don't understand the basis for the sweeping claims about bullying and violence. I would ask you what has lead you to believe this.

[Purple_roses]

Does bullying happen? Yes. But I don't think hearing about the worst possible cases of it will help you transition to nurse; you'll go in expecting bad things to happen to you and you'll think you see it, even if it's not there simply because of your mindset. Are you going into your NCLEX telling yourself that you're automatically going to fail? No. Go in to your test and your new jobs with a fresh perspective. Don't take things too personally. And if you do happen to get bullied, we are here for you. Worry about that if it comes.

Good luck on your test!

[No Stars In My Eyes]

Grew up north of Boston and went to school in Cambridge, Mass.

Brusque was a way of life in New England.

Saw a picture of a woman's face in a magazine once, and underneath it said, "Is this woman angry, or is she just from New England?"

[NurseVerde]

I can give you a case of bullying, fresh off the presses of my life. I am in my second job as a second career RN - switched from the hospital setting to outpatient clinic to actually get away from the bullying of the med-surg world. I don't believe every floor has such a toxic culture however a clique was abound on my former floor and they liked to undermine you behind their back with gossip, give you horrible assignments, and sit back while you drown. It was never something I envisioned to be possible in a career that should be patient and compassionate care focused. Unfortunately, I was not welcomed by yet another snide nurse at the clinic where I was hoping to find someone of my mindset. I knew from not long after knowing her that I was never going to be respected nor liked, as she thought it was imperative for all nurses to get a whole year of experience in the hospital before leaving, whereas I only stuck around for 6 months. My intuition was right. Any time I made a mistake while learning, she would run and tell upper management. We were coworkers but she was the lead nurse, so it became a "her word against mine" battle where her seniority took precedence. She buddied up with one of the two providers in our clinic, the MD, and they both schemed to complain on a weekly basis about me. Although the clinic setting was new to me, I never made any gross errors on the job and simply had a few growing pains. I am not a believer in disparaging every move a person makes on the job - it's a sign of insecurity when you care more about what others are doing than by simply caring about doing your own job well. Essentially she wanted me fired, even told me to my face once how one of her Hospice friends would JUST LOVE to work in the clinic. Her attitude broke down our communication at times, not to the point where I wouldn't talk to her at all, but if I had a question, I never felt comfortable going to her for help because 1) she would probably report me for not remembering what to do and 2) I just couldn't stand any extra interaction with her than already necessary. She couldn't possibly respect me because of who I am: a second career RN, bilingual, with a BSN, and living a very active, healthy lifestyle - meanwhile, she has an ADN, just had a baby along with being overweight before the baby, and would critique my eating habits as "healthy hipster" lol. I live in an at-will employment state where they can fire you for any reason basically - and that's exactly what happened. And I was nit-picked along the way, to death. The NP in our clinic stood up for me to management after I packed up my things and left. It's sad how drama is only magnified when it's in a smaller environment and the politics that came into play gave her the upper hand. But that's my story. I had been looking for another job over the last two months since the drama really came to head (and never ended) and thankfully I've got a job with the ministry of Jesus as the basis of their existence so if this isn't the place for me I don't know what is! haha

I don't want anyone to think I don't take any responsibility for any of the errors I did make along the way - but nobody deserves to be bullied under any circumstance! If I could go back in time, I would have reported anyone who treated me unfairly ASAP instead of trying to ignore them. I definitely felt defeated in my second job and only was able to email my grievances post-firing.

[Gooselady, BSN, RN]

Yes but even the OP's instructor's example really wasn't bullying. That's the problem. People are calling even the most mildly negative interaction bullying and that is really insulting to those people who have truly suffered under the hands of a real bully.

Good point, and I agree completely that the OP's instructor example was not bullying.

Is it insulting to those who have genuinely been bullied? Perhaps, but how would a student nurse have Clue Number One unless he or she asked experienced nurses? There is no harm in ASKING. That's what I tried to say. Bullying/lateral violence in nursing is a reality. I think THIS is the important point.

That this particular example turns out to be NOT bullying (more of an attitude issue with the clinical instructor IMO) is just something to point out for the sake of a new nurse who is wondering about a legitimate nursing issue. And then, as has been done by many posters, the OP was given examples of real bullying that they've experienced or witnessed. This OP is now better educated about the dynamics of bullying, what IS bullying, and even some ideas on how to relate to it and cope with it.

Even if the OP's example was a poor one, it does not invalidate her concern. She should be concerned, we all should be, because it's an awful thing, and embarrassing thing, and we should be embarrassed. Pretending it doesn't exist is a lie, and a rather pathetic excuse for not taking responsibility for our own profession. Bullying is everyone's problem, if we care about our profession.

[Gooselady, BSN, RN]

Perhaps it is the geographical location I am in, or maybe I just got lucky, I don't know. I first heard the term "nurses eat their young" on this forum around ten years ago. I have never felt there is a pervasive problem with bullying and lateral violence in nursing.

Nurses are mean to each other in TV shows and movies? Again, I am perplexed by this comment. Nurses are portrayed in many ways in media and have been fixtures of the entertainment world for always. I find that taken as a whole, we are depicted as angels and saints at least as often, but overall the treatment is as all of us are, real people-- warts and all.

Lots of experiences are recounted here on this forum, and quite honestly very few rise to the level any kind of violence in my mind. As a young nurse I dealt with many an unpleasant personality, and some people were probably too brusque in their style of communicating. That's about it, really.

I have observed medical education up close and personal and feel that of the two fields, medicine is much closer to what we might call "bullying". I don't find the public aware of this unspoken issue in nursing at all.

It isn't easy being a new nurse as we know, and I don't think even those crusty old bats here who are accused of eating their young are here for any other reason than to help new nurses navigate the waters.

I don't understand the basis for the sweeping claims about bullying and violence. I would ask you what has lead you to believe this.

I appreciate you asking, I honestly do. I try not to make claims without direct personal experience to back them up.

As a student and a new nurse, I experienced some bullying by older more experienced nurses. I walked off a job early on due to bullying, and my manager was actually supportive. I politely confronted a bullying charge nurse a couple of years later, and learned a valuable lesson -- that there was no good reason to just 'take it' when a coworker felt entitled to (literally) yell at me in front of the entire staff -- for ANY REASON. And the confrontation went well, I think I got her respect.

I recently began watching Nurse Jackie, and even though it was a comedy how Jackie treated Zoey, it was a play on a kind of stereotype of the confident, crusty old battle axe of an experienced nurse. The dialogue between staff in that show was funny on the show but would have been considered brutal and unprofessional in real life. OF COURSE it's not real life, but what entertains us is those small bits of 'truth' inside the entertainment.

In general, there is a public stereotype of the firm, no-nonsense nurse who is either angelically 'good' or exploiting her position of power. Writers have a lot of fun playing around with the stereotypical nurse. They have a lot of fun with doctors and dentists too .

I doubt I could be bullied except by a very sick and twisted manager, at this point in my life, but I've witnessed bullying happening to others, and have spoken up and confronted it. The bullying was done by peer RNs toward new nurses, CNA's, lab techs, respiratory therapists and unit secretaries. Examples: Yelling at the unit secretary in the presence of staff and patient/families, for ANY reason; telling a new nurse (at the top of her lungs) that she will write her up if she doesn't use a Y connector in setting up TPN; pounding on the desk with a fist (and naturally, yelling) about an admission assessment that was incomplete; loudly confronting a new housekeeper, transport staff or CNA for missing a task; and this doesn't cover half of the cruel gossip I had to walk away from.

It's real, otherwise we'd just be perplexed instead of defensive and RUDE when new nurses (or anyone) brings up the subject.

There is so much more to nursing than the random bully, but the nature of the job seems to bring out the worst in some people (due to the stress and emotional nature of what we do).

I don't claim to know this for sure, but it seems to me that the defensiveness and truly rude comments often made on threads like underscore the accusations and reality of bullying in nursing. I know people are less inhibited online, and write things they'd never say person to person. I don't get it myself, but some nurses (and people in general) resent the implication that they need to tone down their abrasiveness and try for a little more respect EVEN to CNAs and housekeepers.

Some individuals DO cry 'bully!!' for ridiculous reasons. What does this have to do with the fact that nurses really DO bully one another sometimes? Nothing, it's blame shifting, it's blaming the victim automatically before they get out of the gate. The individuals who claim they are bullied for ridiculous reasons are obvious. It doesn't take a brainiac to figure that out.

[FlyingScot, RN]

Good point, and I agree completely that the OP's instructor example was not bullying.

Is it insulting to those who have genuinely been bullied? Perhaps, but how would a student nurse have Clue Number One unless he or she asked experienced nurses? There is no harm in ASKING. That's what I tried to say. Bullying/lateral violence in nursing is a reality. I think THIS is the important point.

That this particular example turns out to be NOT bullying (more of an attitude issue with the clinical instructor IMO) is just something to point out for the sake of a new nurse who is wondering about a legitimate nursing issue. And then, as has been done by many posters, the OP was given examples of real bullying that they've experienced or witnessed. This OP is now better educated about the dynamics of bullying, what IS bullying, and even some ideas on how to relate to it and cope with it.

Even if the OP's example was a poor one, it does not invalidate her concern. She should be concerned, we all should be, because it's an awful thing, and embarrassing thing, and we should be embarrassed. Pretending it doesn't exist is a lie, and a rather pathetic excuse for not taking responsibility for our own profession. Bullying is everyone's problem, if we care about our profession.

I NEVER said to pretend it doesn't exist. I just think that there is way too much focus on it before it even happens! Now we have nursing instructors filling students' heads with ideas that they WILL be bullied, they WILL be eaten and that all experienced nurses are out to get them. Then we make it worse by some people here that say "if you think you're being bullied then you ARE being bullied" Baloney! If you look for something you're sure to find it, whether it exists or not. The vast majority of posts complaining about NETY and bullying have been incidents that don't even come close to true bullying. And it isn't "perhaps" insulting to those who have been victimized it is completely insulting.

Furthermore, nursing doesn't have the corner market on bullying/lateral violence. It's everywhere! In every career! You know why? Because some human beings just plain suck! And there seems to be more and more of these sucky types of people coming out of the woodwork these days.

[FlyingScot, RN]

She couldn't possibly respect me because of who I am: a second career RN, bilingual, with a BSN, and living a very active, healthy lifestyle - meanwhile, she has an ADN, just had a baby along with being overweight before the baby, and would critique my eating habits as "healthy hipster" lol.

I was with you right up to here.

[NurseVerde]

By stating that, I was giving you the side of why she didn't like me as I had stated that she wouldn't respect or like me prior in the long post. I definitely think women in general can become jealous or just not willing to look for similarities when they work with or know other women who live entirely different lifestyles or just dare to be different. I'm not that type. I will give compliments for style or deserved praise when worthy of doing great work - even to her. I try to stay positive, that is just my personality. I remained professional and friendly with the snide nurse up until the end to the best of my ability because I never knew if she truly could get me fired and just to maintain the sanity of the clinic. There were some nice moments between us, but in general, she had a vendetta.

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

The thing that got my attention in the OP was the fear that something awful was inevitable. That "prepare myself for the worst" thing--- honey chile, this is no way to approach life. It's a GREAT way to prepare for a run up the Himalayas or a wilderness solo trip, but not ... a work situation. Being scared and anticipating the worst makes you overproduce the fight-or-flight catecholamines that sharpen your senses. Useful for the jungle, and at work it makes you hypersensitive to criticism and thoughtless slights, making you fall into a puddle of tears for no rational reason.

Nursing is not hell, your first year will not be running a gantlet where meanies beat you at every turn, and painful experiences do not lurk around every corner. Expecting the worst pretty much assures you'll find it. Go in with the expectation that people are people, you'll meet all kinds in the halls as well as in the beds, and remember that most of what you think is meanness directed at you personally has just about nothing to do with you at all. Look for the good everywhere you go. And remember that people are generally pretty much as happy as they want to be. What do you want?

[No Stars In My Eyes]

^^^like!^^^Like!^^^LIKE!^^^^

[nursel56]

I appreciate you asking, I honestly do. I try not to make claims without direct personal experience to back them up.

Not going to re-quote the whole reply but....

Thank you, Gooselady. The interesting thing to me is that throughout my career I never would describe behavior towards me or witnessed by me as "bullying", and retrospectively I applied the term to the situation I described because it was specifically mentioned in the OP's title. I haven't observed a lot of yelling in front of staff by other nurses, and certainly if you were singled out it would qualify as bullying.

I love a good medical drama, nurse movies, reality shows direct from Trauma I, and fortunately there are lots of them out there. At my crusty age, I'm more familiar with the older shows, who by and large are more concerned with interpersonal relationships than stereotypes such as "meek and weak" or "battleaxe". In fact, the battleaxe stereotype usually has the battleaxe shown to be a caring, yet gruff person who more than anything else is valued for knowing their stuff.

I find these discussions very often leave out what is obvious to me. The new nurse needs the experienced nurse more than the experienced nurse needs the new nurse. Blasphemy, I know. Before I get flamed for saying that I acknowledge the "who will take care of you?" argument, the "we owe it to young nurses" and I'm not jealous because they are younger and prettier than me! :-) Just heading some common replies off at the pass....

I think sometimes we get a run of topics, as we have a veritable blizzard of "rude nurse" and "nurses eat their young" and "bully nurse" threads lately. People reply in an exasperated manner to a new thread by a new person because we're sick of hearing about how horrible we are. That isn't the new person's fault, though, I admit.