What are your thoughts on unions?

Sheri257 · Aug 4, 2005

WHAT ABOUT union LPN'S how much more did they make on average??

Union LPN's don't do as well as union RN's in the salary difference, but they still do better. About $2,000 more a year than non-union LPN's.

:coollook:

Sheri257 · Aug 4, 2005

I retired last month...so the last MONTH dues I paid....was $29.75. That is not taken out of your check...you pay that like a bill. Most unions have almost all the same characteristics. Yes, they tell you unionized people make more money...but they don't tell you how much of that your going to be paying out.

Well ... let's look at how much union members pay out versus how much they get back.

$29.75 a month is not much. That's a little less than $360 a year.

But even if a union worker pays $1,000 a year in dues, they're still better off since they make $9,000 more, on average, than their non-union collegues.

That's still an $8,000 a year net benefit, or an 800 percent rate of return on your dues money.

It would be extremely difficult to get an 800 percent rate of return in the stock market or real estate, for example, with that same money. So, from a financial perspective, union dues are a pretty good deal.

:coollook:

Mermer1030 · Aug 4, 2005

Well ... let's look at how much union members pay out versus how much they get back.
$29.75 a month is not much. That's a little less than $360 a year.
But even if a union worker pays $1,000 a year in dues, they're still better off since they make $9,000 more, on average, than their non-union collegues.
That's still an $8,000 a year net benefit, or an 800 percent rate of return on your dues money.
It would be extremely difficult to get an 800 percent rate of return in the stock market or real estate, for example, with that same money. So, from a financial perspective, union dues are a pretty good deal.

The union dues are the LEAST amount....that is a one month pay to the union hall....that was not my complaint....my complaint was the ASSESSMENTS that come out of your check weekly that add up. Assessments are figured on your weekly pay amount and are deducted every week. I think was about 2% of your weekly pay....by the end of the year is several hundred....and that is not only deduction....we had deductions that came out each week for different funds that were established to support the union....I think, we had 3.....they weren't that much...about 6 cents (each)fund for EVERY hour you work....3 funds...there goes another 7 bucks a week.

If every working person could unionize and it ONLY cost them $29.50 a week, that would be WONDERFUL....but most of them have many other fees and deductions.....yes, If I could sign that I would Only have to pay a REASONABLE monthly fee....and that is ALL I would have to pay...I would go for that....but I bet you can't many unions to put that into writing.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Aug 4, 2005

At my hospital, many of the lower paying jobs are union, but the nurses are not. Frankly, I was thrilled to get out of my union. The biggest problem, I think, is that most of the decisions are made by those who are excited enough to go to the meetings on a regular basis. Our union was essentially run by the housekeepers, who ranted continuously about what ogres our management is, even as they were doing their best to get rid of my job (since it overlapped housekeeping in some ways).

A big argument for unions is that they protect you from arbitrary firing, but my managers never had any interest in firing me. What the union did for me was keep people in jobs they weren't doing, so I could do my job and theirs.

As a non-union nurse, I get benefits as good as or better than I did with the union. My employer genuinely wants us to be happy, and does things to make sure we are. There are limits, to be sure, and it isn't all fun all the time, but on the whole I feel I've been treated well.

Of course, things could be a lot different in a for-profit setting.

Sheri257 · Aug 4, 2005

The union dues are the LEAST amount....that is a one month pay to the union hall....that was not my complaint....my complaint was the ASSESSMENTS that come out of your check weekly that add up. Assessments are figured on your weekly pay amount and are deducted every week. I think was about 2% of your weekly pay....by the end of the year is several hundred....and that is not only deduction....we had deductions that came out each week for different funds that were established to support the union....I think, we had 3.....they weren't that much...about 6 cents (each)fund for EVERY hour you work....3 funds...there goes another 7 bucks a week.
If every working person could unionize and it ONLY cost them $29.50 a week, that would be WONDERFUL....but most of them have many other fees and deductions.....yes, If I could sign that I would Only have to pay a REASONABLE monthly fee....and that is ALL I would have to pay...I would go for that....but I bet you can't many unions to put that into writing.

So what was the total ????

The point is ... even if the total is $1,000 a year, you're still better off because union members make $9,000 on average than non-union members.

There's still a net benefit of $8,000 a year that you wouldn't have otherwise.

:coollook:

Ruby Vee, BSN · Aug 4, 2005

what are your thoughts on unions? are they a help or hinderance?
thanks!

i've worked both in union hospitals and in nonunion hospitals, and in hospitals with strong unions and with weak unions. in my opinion, the best of all possible worlds is a hospital with a strong union . . . then make an effort to get to know your union representative so that when the contract comes up for renegotiation you can pass on what you think is important/less important for the new contract.

my dh was the grievance officer for the union in one of the hospitals in which we've worked. as grievance officer, he took the grievances to conference committee, a committee made up of nursing management and union representatives. he also participated in disciplinary meetings as an advocate for the union member. (or nurse who hadn't yet bothered to join the union . . . most of them did join after their disciplinary meeting!)

as a contract negotiater, dh was able to preserve some of the benefits that were most important to icu nurses. for example, if you had less than 10 hours off between shifts, you got time-and-a-half for the first eight hours of the second shift. that not only cut down on management trying to force people to work ot at the end of their shift, it made it more attractive for some of us to volunteer for the ot. the union contract also dictated that straight day shifts were to be awarded on basis of seniority (rather than who the nm thought "needed it the most" or who the nm liked the best). that was a huge step in making things more fair and increasing retention.

as grievance officer, dh attended disciplinary meetings. in some cases, the nm (or more frequently, the assistant nurse manager) had taken a dislike to some staff nurse for non-professional reasons ("she's the nurse my bf dated before me," or "he's married to my sister-in-law" or "she's born again and i hate born agains") and dh was able to "defang" the offending anm. in other cases, the nurse really had screwed up, and in some of those cases, dh was instrumental in outlining a performance plan that was fair to both management and the nurse and saved the nurse's job. in other cases, he was able to negotiate a termination that preserved some options for the nurse -- for instance, transferring an icu nurse who screwed up too often to another floor or to a clinic. he also negotiated some accomodations -- one nurse who claimed her diabetes prohibited working nights ever was transferred to pacu where nights wouldn't be an issue. without the union, management would have been able to do pretty much anything they wanted; with the union, they had to be fair.

there are some downsides to unionized hospitals. for one thing, the union is no better than the folks who choose to be active in it. for another, some unions are quite expensive, especially to people on the bottom of the pay scale. all in all, though, i think the benefits outweigh the problems.

ruby (nonunionized now, and regretting it!)

Haunted · Aug 4, 2005

I am all for unions, contracts, sealed in blood, whatever! Nurses are way too busy dodging bullets to stick up, all the time, for every nurse with an issue. If you believe your state BRN is gonna stick up for you, you are truly deluded. T

There job is to protect the public FROM YOU!!! Get your behind represented by someone, somehow and do it soon. Take back the power that non union administrators are abusing on your behalf!!!

Sincerely, Norma Rae (just kidding about that!)

mclyndle · Aug 5, 2005

I have been in both situations and they both have positives and negatives. Basically it is not fun to be run over by stingy and greedy administrators, so I vote yes for the union.

kewlnurse · Aug 5, 2005

I work for a Union hospital, i would vote them out in a second. We have poor nisurance, average pay, poor staffing, grievences that do absolutley notehr (last manager i had, had over 125 grievencs in one year aganst her personally and she still has her job)

yupyup5 · Aug 5, 2005

I started a new job in May working weekends. On Sunday, one of the senior nurses pulled me aside and asked me how I liked working there. Long story short, some of the nurses are interested in getting unionized, primarily to ensure mandatory staffing. They are having meetings with union representatives and eventually will have a vote. The RNs and LPNs will have their own seperate unions, the techs will not be union. What are your thoughts on unions? Are they a help or hinderance? I worry that if we go union TPTB will take away the weekend program with premium pay, esp if they are forced to hire agency to fill open spots. I am happy working there and would hate to see that happen. Any and all opinions are welcomed!
Thanks!

My thought on unions is that they are necessary only if you can't talk to your manager/director to work out issues....is that the case?

kathc · Aug 5, 2005

The nurses in our facility belong to a union..a county union. I really do not see the benefit to being in it. Perhaps at one time it helped, but the last contract we signed was not that great. 2% increase in pay that will be eaten up by an increase in union dues and health insurance premiums. We have manditory overtime and our pay is average for the area. There are pros can cons to be both unionized and unionized.

jkaee · Aug 5, 2005

My thought on unions is that they are necessary only if you can't talk to your manager/director to work out issues....is that the case?

Thanks to everyone that replied....and for the record I did NOT want to start a debate....heck, I didn't even know there was a debate for and against unions...shows how out of the loop I am!!

I have no problems where I work....I just started there, I only work 3 weekends a month....I go in, do my job, and go home. I am very happy with my pay. I don't need benefits. Staffing is okay....but there are issues (as there are everywhere). I think the problem is on our Ortho floor, they keep telling the nurses that they are "trying" to get a 3rd nurse, and never do. That leaves 2 nurses with 10-11 pts each on days...which I worked last Sunday and it's insane. I could barely keep track of my patients! That's just too many pts for an acute rehab setting! But, other than that, it's a job and I like who I work with. I'm just afraid that if they do go union, they may try to take away the weekend program....but that would really screw them...so who knows.

I guess I'll just wait and see if I hear anything else. Thanks again!