What do you think about with current News and Opinions?

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Something to understand what nurses think about re the Current News and their opinions!

20 minutes ago, Beerman said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/08/we-don't-need-solar-and-wind-to-save-the-climate-and-its-a-good-thing-too/?sh=7218c548e4de

Thanks for the link.  I didn't see the language that described that first US government investment in solar energy.  Your citation was one of the articles that I read trying to find confirmation of that government investment as early as the 1920s. Photovoltaic energy has been a functional idea for a long time.  

This is an interesting read about which petroleum producers are venturing into renewable energy development. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211467X19300574

Which of those other, previously listed energy options were crazy?

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1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Thanks for the link.  I didn't see the language that described that first US government investment in solar energy.  Your citation was one of the articles that I read trying to find confirmation of that government investment as early as the 1920s. Photovoltaic energy has been a functional idea for a long time.  

This is an interesting read about which petroleum producers are venturing into renewable energy development. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211467X19300574

Which of those other, previously listed energy options were crazy?

Time,  energy, money has been spent on wind and solar for over 100 years.  Worldwide.  Not necessarily US govt investment.  Even that is close to 50 years. 

Mass transit is not efficient for most people in most areas of the country.  I live in a metro area that has greatly expanded mass transit options in the last 30 years, at tremendous costs.   It's just not even close to convenient.  My work is 30 minutes by car, or at least twice that by public transit. And I'd still have to drive part way, and then walk a bit.  I can't even get to one of the nations busiest airports from the suburbs in a efficient manner.

As for the crazier ideas, I'll go with the easy one, for starters. eliminating animal agriculture.  For a whole variety of reasons, that will never be reduce enough to make a dent in global warming.  

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7 hours ago, Beerman said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2018/05/08/we-don't-need-solar-and-wind-to-save-the-climate-and-its-a-good-thing-too/?sh=7218c548e4de

My neighbor has solar electricity and his electric bill is negative in that he has excess and he doesn't lose power during a hurricane power outage. Florida is generally a sunny place.   Is it the answer to climate change pollution?  Of course not.  Is it practical that all electricity be generated by "clean" sources.  No.

Natural gas is the main source of power where I live over 90% is what I've read.  But even the power company here uses solar power at it's plant to reduce costs.  You can bet if it were costly they wouldn't be doing it.  They also have a program to replace street lights with LEDs to help save the city costs.  

We don't need to throw out the baby with the bath water.  If alternatives aren't effective in lessening pollution, not practical for the poor, are more expensive and don't make a difference,  then we need to keep trying and not keep the status quo because it's not okay to pollute.  

Let me edit to say that the above solar panels were not free.  There was some incentive but they are not cheap.  So there is that.  They are paying for themselves in the long run.  

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5 hours ago, Beerman said:

Time,  energy, money has been spent on wind and solar for over 100 years.  Worldwide.  Not necessarily US govt investment.  Even that is close to 50 years. 

Mass transit is not efficient for most people in most areas of the country.  I live in a metro area that has greatly expanded mass transit options in the last 30 years, at tremendous costs.   It's just not even close to convenient.  My work is 30 minutes by car, or at least twice that by public transit. And I'd still have to drive part way, and then walk a bit.  I can't even get to one of the nations busiest airports from the suburbs in a efficient manner.

As for the crazier ideas, I'll go with the easy one, for starters. eliminating animal agriculture.  For a whole variety of reasons, that will never be reduce enough to make a dent in global warming.  

I appreciate the clarification, I thought you were talking about American investment.  

You make an excellent point. The USA has an automobile focused approach to transportation. That means that we need to find a way for automobiles to function well without petroleum based fuels. 

We could definitely change the way we think about nutrition and animal agriculture in this country.  There's room for improvement.  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-31/why-is-american-mass-transit-so-bad-it-s-a-long-story

 

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56 minutes ago, Tweety said:

My neighbor has solar electricity and his electric bill is negative in that he has excess and he doesn't lose power during a hurricane power outage. Florida is generally a sunny place.   Is it the answer to climate change pollution?  Of course not.  Is it practical that all electricity be generated by "clean" sources.  No.

Natural gas is the main source of power where I live over 90% is what I've read.  But even the power company here uses solar power at it's plant to reduce costs.  You can bet if it were costly they wouldn't be doing it.  They also have a program to replace street lights with LEDs to help save the city costs.  

We don't need to throw out the baby with the bath water.  If alternatives aren't effective in lessening pollution, not practical for the poor, are more expensive and don't make a difference,  then we need to keep trying and not keep the status quo because it's not okay to pollute.  

Let me edit to say that the above solar panels were not free.  There was some incentive but they are not cheap.  So there is that.  They are paying for themselves in the long run.  

I remember a solar panel salesman coming to our home when I was a kid in the 80's.  All these years later, in a area that gets more sun than most of the country, homes with solar are still few and far between.

On a smaller scale, I use solar to recharge my rv batteries that power small led lights, small water pump, small fan for the propone  heater, and a 12 volt refrigerator.  I still have to bring a gas powered portable generator that I have to use more than I prefer. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm all for finding various sources of energy.  But, we shouldn't be propping up industries that have proven to not be the answer.  And, we shouldn't be waging war against the one that we are currently depending on.

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59 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I appreciate the clarification, I thought you were talking about American investment.  

You make an excellent point. The USA has an automobile focused approach to transportation. That means that we need to find a way for automobiles to function well without petroleum based fuels. 

We could definitely change the way we think about nutrition and animal agriculture in this country.  There's room for improvement.  

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-31/why-is-american-mass-transit-so-bad-it-s-a-long-story

 

Interesting article.   I definitely see some things mentioned, here where I am.  We have relatively new light rail, and almost brand new commuter rail lines. And, I used to be able to go to a park n ride 10 minutes away where I could get a bus straght to the airport. 

Ridership hasn't been what they wanted. So, they cut services, which in turn makes it all even more inconvenient and further discourages riders.

Of course room for improvement in nutrition and animal agriculture.   it's too woven into our society and economy.  Not much bang for buck into looking to that to help climate change, imo.  And whenever I hear someone talk about getting rid of meat and dairy in the interest of climate change, yes I think they're crazy.  Not to mention, how much of our resources, such as land and water,  it would take to replace meat and dairy seems to not be considered.

 

 

 

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
26 minutes ago, Beerman said:

And, we shouldn't be waging war against the one that we are currently depending on.

That's like the abusive wife staying with her husband because she depends on him.  

Not really.  I can agree that we need to continue to use fossil fuels and shouldn't demonize them since they enriched Western society.  However, we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand and not acknowledge the harm that our addiction to oil, factory farms, etc. is doing to us.  

 

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56 minutes ago, Beerman said:

I remember a solar panel salesman coming to our home when I was a kid in the 80's.  All these years later, in a area that gets more sun than most of the country, homes with solar are still few and far between.

On a smaller scale, I use solar to recharge my rv batteries that power small led lights, small water pump, small fan for the propone  heater, and a 12 volt refrigerator.  I still have to bring a gas powered portable generator that I have to use more than I prefer. 

Don't get me wrong.  I'm all for finding various sources of energy.  But, we shouldn't be propping up industries that have proven to not be the answer.  And, we shouldn't be waging war against the one that we are currently depending on.

Why do you think that solar energy options haven't expanded through the working class? Why do you think that the country hasn't invested in a more stable and secure power grid?

Which renewable energy source are you saying is not part of the answer?

I also use solar when I can. Lot's of Alaskans use solar in the Summer because there's just sooo much sun.  I heat with wood but I'm getting old to maintain a wood pile and when it's really cold here the wood smoke settles in the low areas. That's not ideal if a number of people all live in the same low area as the air quality suffers. We are more rustic and primitive campers.  The river is usually our fridge...or a permafrost fridge in an established camp.  

I don't think we are "waging war" on the fossil fuel industry. There are no attacks, rather there's a reduction of favor.  That's not a war, it's a shift of interest accompanying an evolved understanding.

I think that there could be a varied and sustainable renewable energy plan for this country.  We should invest in that. 

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33 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Interesting article.   I definitely see some things mentioned, here where I am.  We have relatively new light rail, and almost brand new commuter rail lines. And, I used to be able to go to a park n ride 10 minutes away where I could get a bus straght to the airport. 

Ridership hasn't been what they wanted. So, they cut services, which in turn makes it all even more inconvenient and further discourages riders.

Of course room for improvement in nutrition and animal agriculture.   it's too woven into our society and economy.  Not much bang for buck into looking to that to help climate change, imo.  And whenever I hear someone talk about getting rid of meat and dairy in the interest of climate change, yes I think they're crazy.  Not to mention, how much of our resources, such as land and water,  it would take to replace meat and dairy seems to not be considered.

 

 

 

Agricultural changes are needed not just because of climate change, but climate change is a good reason to start changing. Americans need a much improved diet. 

 I don't get too worked up by fringe talk about getting rid of meat because that's not serious talk.  The psychological attachment to large quantities of meat is really a matter of marketing, IMV.

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53 minutes ago, Tweety said:

That's like the abusive wife staying with her husband because she depends on him.  

Not really.  I can agree that we need to continue to use fossil fuels and shouldn't demonize them since they enriched Western society.  However, we shouldn't stick our heads in the sand and not acknowledge the harm that our addiction to oil, factory farms, etc. is doing to us.  

 

Yes.

As we edge away from petroleum as am energy source we also need to reduce it's use in packaging and other manufacturing.  

https://e360.yale.edu/digest/scientists-say-they-have-found-a-viable-replacement-for-petroleum-based-plastic

Plastics are poisoning our water and wildlife.  

 

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12 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

 Why do you think that solar energy options haven't expanded through the working class? Why do you think that the country hasn't invested in a more stable and secure power grid?

There are lots of drawbacks.  You need a lot of roof space, and that space has to be facing the right direction.  Even if you have the required space, that many of them might not be aesthetically pleasing.  Like, on the front of your home, for example.  Or, you need space on your land for them. 

You also need to consider when your roof needs to be replaced if installing on an existing home.  Those panels will need to be removed.

It's expensive.  If you want to store power, expensive batteries are needed.  You're ROI will take awhile.  And, if you live where electricity is cheap, it's even less attractive.  

Then, there is the obvious.  You need sun.  We have more sun here than most places.  But places that don't have as much, or more northern areas where the sun doesn't get as high in the sky, especially in Winter, solar is less efficient. 

Wind has even more drawbacks.  Vast amounts of land are needed.  One study I read claimed just for the electricity need for the US, we would need the land area more than twice of California.  Someone here once told me they are cool looking.  Which, when I've driven through some areas in Kansas and California that have hundreds if them,  I guess I could see that.  However,  the people who live there and see them all the time, and their blinking red lights at night, don't agree it seems.  They also produce noise which is thought to cause some health problems.  They kill birds.  I've read that in California of all places, the industry has given up on new projects because so many people hate the turbines.

EV's show some promise.   But, as of now still have some big drawbacks that most of us choose not to live with.

Even the biggest proponents of renewables are reluctant.  Who here has solar panels on their home, or drives a electric car?  It was news when Obama installed solar panels for the WH.  Has anyone heard of them going up at his DC mansion?

I'm not sure what you mean by a "more stable and secure" power grid.

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