What to do after SEC assessment?

[AVKON]

Hello to everyone.

I am a Registered Nurse in the Philippines with one year experience in the Operating Room and 3 months experience in the General Medical/Surgical ward (prior to being assigned in the OR). I have filed my application with CRNBC and I have done my IELTS already.

Last week, I received a letter from CRNBC stating that for CRNBC to continue assessing my application, I must take a SEC assessment test (nursinginbc.ca).

My original plan was to apply for a Work Permit/BC PNP after I get my job offer after CRNBC states that I am eligible to write the CRNE. However, since CRNBC will not be able to assess me until I take the SEC, my plan is now all messed up.

I know what the SEC is about, what worries me is how to go about this. Obviously, I will have to go to Canada sometime this year (my deadline is Dec. 10, 2009) and take my SEC, probably on a Tourist Visa. What to do AFTER the SEC assessment is what bothers me. Kwantlen U. said it will take them 3-8 weeks to release my results, and CRNBC sait it will take them 1-2 months to assess the results. If I fail, I would have to take some coursework and retake the SEC, if I pass I would then be eligible to write the CRNE. The timeframe between CRNBC assessing my results and, assuming I pass, declare that I am qualified to write the CRNE is vague.

So why is this troublesome? Obviously, I will have to STAY in BC while I wait out how all these events work out. Going back home to the Philippines would not be financially sound; I cannot imagine going back and forth to Canada without putting my family into serious debt. So I am stuck in Canada WITHOUT work for AT LEAST 3 months.

To IENs who have to take the SEC, what are your plans? What do you plan to do as you wait out the results of this process?

To CRNBC and other regulating bodies, I know why you have to do this, but would it not be better if SEC were offered OUTSIDE Canada as well? Or maybe somewhere else along the application process, maybe after getting 350+ hours of supervised work? Do you know you are asking IENs to travel to Canada to take the SEC without secure employment or even permission to work? Please know that the fare alone to Canada is no small change for those of us in developing countries, at least assuring us that this can be a ONE TIME expense with work at the end of the line for us to pay off unavoidable debts would be a step in the right direction.

To immigration and visa experts, what do I have to do to be able to find and do work in Canada for these months? Can I apply for a Work Permit when I have an employer? Obviously I cannot work in the hospital, but any work for proper pay is fine, so long as the work (and my stay) is legal and the pay is proper. If I need to do coursework, will I have to appy for a Student Visa as well?

Thank you very much for your time.

[NotReady4PrimeTime, RN]

breech, I need to do the SEC because apparently I have less than 12 years education before university. It seems that they only count starting Grade 1, so that's 6 years elementary and 4 years high school = 10 years.

In Canada there are 6 years of elementary school, three years of junior high school and three years of high school. That is what is required for direct entry into university. Mature students are required to upgrade their secondary school education to the minimum provincial standard in order to be admitted to university.

Alexk49, what I mean by that post is that they tell us EVERYTHING we need to qualify, aside from a degree. BLS? IV training? Head-to-toe assessment training? Granted that even if we have certificates on this, Canadians may do it differently, so an IEN must still be assessed... but the point is --- WE KNOW HOW TO DO IT, we just need to modify the technique to fit the Canadian healthcare setting and expectations.

All of those basic nursing skills are taught within the nursing degree here. The graduate needs no further "seminars" or certificates in those areas because they've already been learned. That sort of thing makes it difficult to compare the two programs, because what skills are taught here as part of the degree process seem to be add-on courses there. It's very confusing and raises concerns about the depth and breadth of education there.

So based on that, why not land the IEN, and before he even touches a patient, give him a good orientation, put him on the SEC, and then polish him up, and when he passes, YOU now have a grateful IEN who knows the job and is an asset to YOUR hospital. Win-win.

Who pays for your plan? It would appear that the taxpayers of the province to whom you plan to provide your services would be on the hook here... for tens of thousands of dollars per candidate. Because it is tax money that pays for every single aspect of health care in this country. Hospitals are not businesses here and have no independent sources of income. Post-secondary education is also heavily subsidized by tax money so the taxpayer is already partially paying for the education of Canadian nurses. Canadians pay proportionately more in taxes than most other industrialized countries. Should they really be expected to pay for the education of IENs too? Again it seems to boil down to someone else paying for your dream.

[5cats]

To answer the original question, I'm just back from Canada, done a focused assessment, but also used the time to look at potential units (had phone interview before), and for this work had to do another exam. So I've done it all together.

Immigration(changing countries) is expensive, I've done it before so I know. And I rather have my results prior to commencing work, so I will be relativly sure to meet the standards and pass the probation time.

Of course it would be great if some of the assessments could be done elswhere as well as the CRNE, but it's just not case. So I don't understand what the discussion is about, if you want to go to Canada, you have to do it the Canadian way, and btw except for the US, no other country offers exams outside their territory. And at the end of it, immigration to Canada is still one of the most straightforward things to do.

The SEC itself I found as fair as it can be (that's the Alberta/Saskatchewan version). If I should need additional training so be it.

5cats

[RN_Canada]

The funny thing is, SEC is not assessing my math or english or science skills, but my nursing competency. Now what has pre-university education have to do with THAT?

Everything!

Your basic K-12 education prepares you with the cognitive skills needed to engage in process of critical inquiry and critical thinking. The more time you have in school to perfect those skills the better they will be.

The SEC is not about skills. It is a Substantially Equivalent Competency assessment and sample patient scenarios are available at the link.

You will notice that the scenarios are more about critical thinking than skills assessment.

The SEC is recommended when the paper work alone does not provide the evidence that the applicant's background and education are equivalent to that required in Canada.

The cost of the assessment is substantial and the governments are subsidizing this so an applicant required to take the SEC does not pay the full cost of the assessment, at least in BC anyway.

I am truly saddened that skilled and experienced nurses are facing so many barriers in getting to Canada because the jobs are here waiting for you, however, I can tell you that the Canadian public expects a lot from the health care system that they own.

While it is true that there is not much difference in performing a nursing skill in Canada than anywhere else that is not the issue.

It is the autonomous, independent, and collaborative role of the nurse that is the challenge for most IEN's. The learning that is needed is not within the psychomotor domain ( how to do it) but within the affective domain (ideas, values , and beliefs).

If you cannot make the transition into the role of the nurse that is expected in Canada then you will not likely be successful in the workplace.

Thankfully most internationally educated nurses can do this but they face many challenges along the way, as this thread illustrates.

[NotReady4PrimeTime, RN]

Thank you so much for explaining the SEC so clearly, RN_Canada. There are a lot of misconceptions out there about what it is and why we do it. And I especially liked your comment about the Canadian public expecting a lot from the health care system WE OWN. We pay for every single thing, from cotton balls and Band-aids to education and research through our taxes, and we want the best of it all that our money can buy. As I just indicated on another thread (also about the SEC) nurses in Canada have a great deal of responsibility and autonomy and they need to be able to manage their practice safely and ethically in all spheres, not just skills.

[chrys_03]

Can somebody please answer the original question "what to do while waiting for SEC assessment results?" 3-8 weeks is a torture if all you can do is wait...

What happens when the results are out... Are we suppose to travel back home and wait some more?

[NotReady4PrimeTime, RN]

I expect that would be up to you. If you're here on a tourist visa and staying with family then you could just do that while you wait. If you're staying in a hostel or hotel it would probably be cheaper to return home to wait. You could see about getting involved with a CRNE study group so that you would be ready for the exam when you're given authorization to write it. Don't forget that the deadline for application fo the exam is about 90 days before the exam date; you don't have to be here to apply though. If you have trouble even thinking about waiting for the results of your SEC you're going to have a REALLY hard time waiting for your CRNE results... they take at least 6 weeks but often 8.

[AsiaRN]

To AVKON : hi! I have the same problem as you do although my SEC invitation expires February of next year. Have you figured out what to do after SEC? I'm toying with the idea of going there as an immigrant with the help of an agency.That way I would have papers allowing me to work while I wait for all the results. The initial cost is expensive, though.

[atzrn]

To AVKON : hi! I have the same problem as you do although my SEC invitation expires February of next year. Have you figured out what to do after SEC? I'm toying with the idea of going there as an immigrant with the help of an agency.That way I would have papers allowing me to work while I wait for all the results. The initial cost is expensive, though.

to AsiaRN

hi... hope you can share your experience... when did you receive your SEC invitation? In what province are you applying? thanks a lot

[AsiaRN]

to atzrn

hi! I got my SEC invitation after I applied for CRNBC approval. Re the immigrant visa, it is an option but I would be working with an immigration agency. That is why it is costly. I am not sure yet if that is really what i will do. Does anyone know if SEC Assessment can be taken in other provinces? Like, my invitation says for me to go to Surrey, BC but can I take it in Ontario? Do they offer the SEC assessment there?

[NotReady4PrimeTime, RN]

SEC isn't the same as the CRNE. Not all provinces require an SEC assessment. Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan and NS are the four I am aware of who do require some form of it. The process was first started in Alberta; the other provinces using it have come on board over the last six months or less and have modeled their assessment on Alberta's. BUT... that doesn't mean that the assessments are identical or even similar. Each province sets their own requirements and evaluates people according to their own needs. So if you're told to go to Surrey to do your SEC, that's where you have to go. Why would you want to do it in Ontario? There are about 4,000 miles and half a country between BC and Ontario!

[baby girl]

I have all the same issues and am looking to find someone who has taken the assessments to gve me an idea of what I am up against. Can anyone help. I am an experienced ITU I am an RN (UK) Adult, with a dipolma in nursing, the post reg specialist critical care course (ENB 100) 13 years itu experience (6 of those as a sister) and an honours degree in acute care. However I have been asked to sit the SEC assessment for maternal and mental health as despite covering these areas in my basic training I have been qualified so long that my university no longer holds a copy of my training transcript. It appears I am being penalised for having experience.

I have already secured myself a full time post in BC and they are keen for me to start. I took a research trip last year to check out the job & unit and am very keen to start however now I have been told I have to sit the SEC having already shelled out for the visa and registration application with CRNBC. I have read previous postings that say this is because of poor recruitment in the past, however to get the job offer in BC I sat a test in London and had a face to face interview with a nurse manager followed by a telephone interview with my proposed manager.

This trip over to sit the SECwill cost me a lot of money with no guarantee of a temporary registration. The whole business is very frustrating - I feel my qualifications and experience count for nothing. I started this whole process after reading about the terrible shortage of nurses in Canada however reading some of the postings it seems to me that many of them think that we are just not good enough!

Anyway enough said, can anyone who has sat the assessment shed any light on the matter please. I have already visited Kwantlens website and Mount Royal and CRNBC and even CARNA, I have also contacted tham all by e-mail trying to ascertain the coursework that the SEC is assessed on and none of them will tell me. Thanks in anticipation.

[Silverdragon102, BSN]

You are not being penalised. I am in a similar situation with Nova Scotia and have to do some courses to make up because my transcripts for Mental health and midwifery (clinical only) wasn't broken down. Remember UK training now is more specialised where as in Canada it is very much general. We have seen a few UK nurses now have to do SEC (I trained as EN in 86 and RN in 97) so have plenty of years as a nurse