What is the problem with nursing school?

[joe007]

I have finally figured out what I dislike about nursing education.

I have noticed nursing continually only focuses on immediate outcomes/observations of disease processes. Their idea of "critical thinking" is not actually higher level critical thinking, but more about memorizing a vast amount of information and putting facts together at a superficial level. For instance, pathophysiology in most nursing programs is severely lacking and focuses on linking signs and symptoms together with basic pathological terms like "MI, stroke, GI bleed, liver failure" etc. However, nurses are taught little about the disease process except for a few key indicators about each underlying disease process and more about how to approach the pt. and deal with anxiety etc. We link greater pathological issues with basic understandings. For instance, an MI decreases oxygen demand and kills tissue, therefore time is tissue, but we don't focus much on the actual disease process of thrombus formation etc. This is what I am extremely interested in. I am currently an ER nurse. Should I go to PA school? Would this give me a deeper scientific background?

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

I'm pretty sure there are 0 nursing schools doing what OP is requesting.

And how would the OP or you know???

I am genuinely curious when people make bold statements based on their own bubble, and then come on here and state what's happening in other programs.

Feel free to disagree, but I can only speak of the programs that I enrolled and graduated from-the Patho was in depth, as well as the "why" behind the mechanisms; to be prepared as a nurse, I believe that most programs will go in depth into most systems, building upon A&P, and will discuss Patho extensively; including labs, testing/diagnostics, etc; part of our scope is anticipate what the provider is going to order and why; there's always a rationale, and it's our responsibility to understand rationales in order to make sure what's best practice collaboratively; we have the ability to question the provider, sometimes for good measure.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I'm pretty sure there are 0 nursing schools doing what OP is requesting.

This is not true. Even when I went to school I was in a pathophysiology class with med students. Four semesters worth...by the way. We learned ALL of the deep pathophys of the disease process. We had to include it in our care plans each and every time.

Do I think there has been a proliferation of nursing with the fast track to a less than stellar education?

Yes.

Choose your school wisely.

[BWright81188]

If you want to stay in nursing, maybe working in a research setting would be more appropriate for you. Higher education might be required, but it sounds like additional schooling wouldn't bother you.

[MurseJJ]

This is not true. Even when I went to school I was in a pathophysiology class with med students. Four semesters worth...by the way.

Really? Was this for your BSN? What school was this, if you don't mind me asking? Four semesters of patho?

[NuGuyNurse2b]

And how would the OP or you know???

I am genuinely curious when people make bold statements based on their own bubble, and then come on here and state what's happening in other programs.

Feel free to disagree, but I can only speak of the programs that I enrolled and graduated from-the Patho was in depth, as well as the "why" behind the mechanisms; to be prepared as a nurse, I believe that most programs will go in depth into most systems, building upon A&P, and will discuss Patho extensively; including labs, testing/diagnostics, etc; part of our scope is anticipate what the provider is going to order and why; there's always a rationale, and it's our responsibility to understand rationales in order to make sure what's best practice collaboratively; we have the ability to question the provider, sometimes for good measure.

Because I was pre-med before realizing I simply cannot pass Organic Chem for the life of me, and the materials we go through in our program does not even compare to the biochem or the neuroscience stuff I was learning when I was on the pre-med path. That's why I agree with OP's question about not going in depth - because I realize as nurses, we don't really need to know that and it's obvious because my nursing program doesn't teach it in depth either. Again, it goes back to what I said previously - what people consider their nursing program to teach to be in depth, I don't see it that way. It's on a superficial level - and I'm not knocking it, cause I don't think we should know it, but that's how I see it. And since NCLEX questions aren't asking those types of questions either, that's how I drew my bold statement while living in my bubble.

[NuGuyNurse2b]

This is not true. Even when I went to school I was in a pathophysiology class with med students. Four semesters worth...by the way. We learned ALL of the deep pathophys of the disease process. We had to include it in our care plans each and every time.

Do I think there has been a proliferation of nursing with the fast track to a less than stellar education?

Yes.

Choose your school wisely.

Do you think that might be a different era, though? I mean the medical and nursing tracks are completely divergent these days - I think I read someone saying we treat the patient, not the disease - so then who is treating the disease - the doctors, and they need to know all the pathopys. So I don't see a reason why the nursing students nowadays would be in the same classrooms with med students if the two tracks are different. It's like A&P for pre-reqs (pre-med, pre-nurse, etc) where we're dissecting a fetal pig or a cat or whatever, depending on the school. But then in med school, the med students are working on cadavres whereas the nursing students are fine with the pre-requisite A&P. That's the kind of difference I'm referring to and expecting to be existing in terms of how in depth the learning goes between the two fields.

[la_chica_suerte85, BSN, RN]

I get what the OP is saying. I was pre-med prior to getting into nursing and it's true -- the program at my school does not do patho the same way and a lot of people in my class also wish they go the "in-depth" treatment. However, I don't think they know what they are asking for. Go ahead and dive right in to that might beast that is cellular biology -- then see how easy we didn't really have it afterall.

Honestly, when it comes down to it and talking with real RNs, they don't care about cellular level processes. The job ends up being different from just pathologies and cellular functions. If you're more interested in that then molecular biology and research is more your game and maybe an NP would take you there.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Do you think that might be a different era, though? I mean the medical and nursing tracks are completely divergent these days - I think I read someone saying we treat the patient, not the disease - so then who is treating the disease - the doctors, and they need to know all the pathopys. So I don't see a reason why the nursing students nowadays would be in the same classrooms with med students if the two tracks are different. It's like A&P for pre-reqs (pre-med, pre-nurse, etc) where we're dissecting a fetal pig or a cat or whatever, depending on the school. But then in med school, the med students are working on cadavers whereas the nursing students are fine with the pre-requisite A&P. That's the kind of difference I'm referring to and expecting to be existing in terms of how in depth the learning goes between the two fields.

We had a cadaver. You are right..it was a different era. Is this one better? I am not so sure.

I was with pre-med students.

Do I think there has been a dumbing down of education in some respects? Yes. I had advanced assessment in my ADN program many moons ago...many schools now say that is for "graduate level nurses". I say it isn't.

Do I think there has been a proliferation of nursing with the fast track to a less than stellar education? Yes.

Do I think my pathopys was as in depth as a med student eventually gets in actual med school post pre-med? No. I don't need it.

The path while "different"...is still similar. Do I diagnose...yes... I just diagnose differently than the MD.

I think that the minimalist education that is taught in some places for entry level is dumbing down the profession. That schools exist that don't have a [harmacology course is unacceptable. However...I am not a nursing "leader" that makes the decisions with a motive of promoting advanced degrees.

I think nursing has strayed the path...we will see where it eventually ends.

This is just my opinion.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Really? Was this for your BSN? What school was this, if you don't mind me asking? Four semesters of patho?

It was a rigorous ASN program. 2 standard pathopys and 2 pathophys applicable to specific abnormal disease process for the RN program. We took all of our courses simultaneously...A&P, Nursing, Clinical, gen ed. We carried heavy loads of credit hours.

Purdue University. 35 years ago. The program does not exist anymore they only have ABSN (essentially the ADN program) and entry BSN.

At the time it was called a 2 + 2. 2 year ASN RN...optional 2 more BSN/NP.

[shannon81]

I completely agree with you- though I am only in my second year of nursing school, mine is the same exact way.

[LoveNeverDies]

OP, it is terrible that you had that kind of schooling. There is a school near me that has a similar set up to what you describe and no hospital around here will touch those graduates with a 10 foot pole. Thankfully, my school was the exact opposite.

[NuGuyNurse2b]

We had a cadaver. You are right..it was a different era. Is this one better? I am not so sure.

I was with pre-med students.

Do I think there has been a dumbing down of education in some respects? Yes. I had advanced assessment in my ADN program many moons ago...many schools now say that is for "graduate level nurses". I say it isn't.

Do I think there has been a proliferation of nursing with the fast track to a less than stellar education? Yes.

Do I think my pathopys was as in depth as a med student eventually gets in actual med school post pre-med? No. I don't need it.

The path while "different"...is still similar. Do I diagnose...yes... I just diagnose differently than the MD.

I think that the minimalist education that is taught in some places for entry level is dumbing down the profession. That schools exist that don't have a [harmacology course is unacceptable. However...I am not a nursing "leader" that makes the decisions with a motive of promoting advanced degrees.

I think nursing has strayed the path...we will see where it eventually ends.

This is just my opinion.

I think this was what OP was referring to. And despite my pre-med track in my past life, nursing school is definitely the hardest academic challenge I've ever faced - I didn't even work half as hard as I do now when I did my first bachelor's degree! So if this is a "dumbing down" version of what you went through, I'm kinda OK with it LOL