What can I do with my BSN that Assoc. RN's can't?

leslie :-D · Jul 14, 2004

i'd rather not leave this thread until i see zenman's sources of the notorious list. read it jnette.... it's out there and i'm asking for his sources.

RuthieRN · Jul 14, 2004

Doodlebug/Miranda,

In response to your request....

I have an ADN and a BSN. I transferred after my two year program and worked as an RN while finishing up my BSN. I would not have been able to get (afford) my BSN if it was not for the ADN program.

I feel that your education level in nursing is not just a personal choice, there are many factors that contribute (finances, age, families, etc.) Personally, I wanted that Bachelors degree. You should never be ashamed of accomplishing any educational goal, be it a CNA to a Dr. Nurse (PhD). I felt that the BSN would afford me more oppourtunities LATER in my career, after I had sampled the many areas of nursing, found my niche and gained some valuable experience. Simply put, the more education you have, the more doors will open for you. It is all about your options and what the future may bring. As you spend more time in the nursing field, I will bet that the BSN will come in handy later on. I hope that you will never regret getting your BSN, I most certainly have not. In California you can be a public health nurse, work in prior authorization/case review for insurance companies, teach student nurses, advance to management, case management, d/c planning, and many others, the doors are open, you just have to find out what you want to do. A BSN is a great step towards finding your bliss. (A note to other posters: I realize that some of these positions may be currently filled by ADN/diploma nurses. However, the thread asked for some options for BSNs. I don't think the original poster meant for it to to be an arguement over ADN vs BSN.)

A hearty congratulations to you in joining the nursing profession! :balloons:

ps There are going to be nurses that will laugh at you for things in addition to your education, just keep your chin up and concentrate on what you are doing in your job. Their opinion is just that. You go out and be the best nurse you can and they can go jump in a lake....

Ruthie

CSLee3, ASN, BSN, LVN, EMT-P · Jul 14, 2004

I would like to add on to something Randy said...about the public's confusion. I don't think its so much our (nurses) fault but rather TV/Media depicting nurses as bed pan specialist and subserviant. Also clinic, offices and schools hiring non- licensed staff and them calling themselves "nurses". We do have to educate the public. I work in a busy ER, people dont really look at my nametag. The few that do usually say, "Wow your JUST an LPN, your really are good". I have treated nursing professors who have commented on my skills, hospital administrators, etc. I am finishing my ADN in a couple of months and do plan to continue onward through the fog. Bottom line is yes...RNs/LPNs deserve respect, but of course we have to earn it through our actions, words and knowledge.

"It is not important where you learned it, but rather what you know" EC

zenman · Jul 15, 2004

Posted by earle58: sadly and no i am not laughing, but i think we are losing much of our credibility but even if we all had bsns, do you really think all of this warfare from within would vanish???? no it would not. it would take nurses believing in their power and speaking up to the powers that be, rather than taking it out on each other.

No, I don't think "all" the infighting would decrease, however it would help. There would also be less of an educational gap between nurses and the powers to be...I'm assuming you mean management.

leslie :-D · Jul 15, 2004

No, I don't think "all" the infighting would decrease, however it would help. There would also be less of an educational gap between nurses and the powers to be...I'm assuming you mean management.

so it's just as simple as that....all nurses are created equal with the simple production of a bsn degree....voila! there goes the oppression, the violence, the abuse, the shortage and all other pertinent nsg. issues.

unless i'm totally blank this moment, i cannot recall any issues in the workplace that revolve around degreed vs. non-degreed nurses. and as we are very familiar with that ubiquitous cliche re: nurses treating each other so horribly, that would still remain as long as mgmt. undervalues us. it's not a 'degree' issue but moreover i think, an image issue. to this day, we're still perceived as the honorable, self-sacrificing martyrs with much nobility and little power. it is a definite image problem.

with that said, if attainable, i would encourage all nurses to get their bsn's IF they receive the necessary clinical experience that the adn does receive. there are many nurses i know that are awe-inspiring, yet i have no idea what credentials/degrees they hold. a few that come to mind are lpns. so while the ideal and a small part of the solution might be to attain our bsns, i think there are much bigger fish to fry and far too many more critical issues at hand rather than a bsn that could perceivably be considered pretentious in the grand scheme of things.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 15, 2004

"......wider knowledge gap..."

That is pretty much the same as knowledge deficit. :rotfl:

zenman · Jul 15, 2004

Posted by Soonstudent:That's a great attitude ladybug! I don't have a lot of knowledge about nursing because I haven't graduated yet, so I try to keep my opinion to myself.

Aloha, soonstudent! Everyone has opinions. Feel free to throw them out there!

However I really enjoyed reading your post and I totally agree with you. As for ADN/BSN, if I personally just wanted to be an RN, and not in a management position, then I'd just go for an ADN. If not, I'd get a BSN.

You can have a BSN and never have an itch for management. Let's look at some objectives for a nursing school. This is from Northwestern School of Nursing in Louisiana which has both an ADN and BSN program (and masters).

ADN program objectives:

Graduates of the Associate Degree Program of the College of Nursing will be prepared to:

1. Provide nursing care founded upon selected scientific principles utilizing the nursing process.

2. Assist clients to achieve dynamic equilibrium by facilitating the satisfaction of needs.

3. Communicate effectively with clients, their significant others, health care team members and citizen groups to promote, maintain and restore health.

4. Teach clients and/or significant others who need information or support for health.

5. Manage selected aspects of nursing care for a group of clients with clearly defined health problems.

6. Demonstrate accountability for actions as members of the nursing profession and expand individual knowledge and skills through avenues of continuing education.

Total 71 credit hours

BSN program objectives:

To implement the role of the beginning professional nurse which includes providing care for individuals, families, groups, and communities the graduate will be able to:

1. Integrate theory from nursing, the arts, humanities, and sciences to provide culturally sensitive care in the global community.

2. Apply the nursing process using critical thinking, communication, assessment, and technical skills.

3.Collaborate with clients and other members of the interdisciplinary health care team for health promotion, risk reduction, disease prevention, disease management, and health restoration.

4. Utilize information and health care technologies in nursing practice.

5. Integrate research findings to promote evidence based nursing practice.

6. Incorporate knowledge of economic, legal, ethical, and political factors influencing health care systems and policy to advocate for recipients of nursing care.

7. Apply principles of leadership to design, manage, coordinate, and evaluate health care delivery.

8. Demonstrate professional nursing standards, values, and accountability.

9. Assume responsibility for professional development and lifelong learning.

Total 122 credit hours

There seems to be a big difference between the two programs! Study each one very carefully.

You could always get your ADN first then go for your BSN. That's the good thing about nursing, it's so versatile. I agree that more knowledge can't hurt, but as I've seen in other fields nothing can replace good hands on experience. No new grad will be able to compete with a seasoned nurse. I also believe it has more to do with the individual than there level of education.

Hands on experience is great...but I have to (for some reason) keep reminding people that the hands on skills needs to have the knowledge base behind it. Few professions expect grads to know anything right out of school. The "clinical" starts when you get a job. I'm also a perfect example of what "an individual" can do. I started as a CNA in 1970. The general surgeon of the small town took me under his wing because he wanted me to be a physician. I was doing all kinds of things that would get me arrested today if I did them as a CNA. After I graduated as an ARMY medic, I challenged the CA state boards...so I became an RN without going to nursing school. My first job as an RN was in a level I trauma center. 6 months later I was the charge and about a year later the nurse manager. I was very motivated and studied all the time. There are always individuals out there who are outside the norm (I passed all psych tests so don't think about laughing!), but they can't be cloned and spread around. I then went on for more education and now know why certain things are done. Across the board there needs to be one entry level for all the reasons I've stated before. Take a diploma, ADN and BSN grad who have been pulled aside and who have no clinical experience whatsoever and place them into a clinical setting on the same day. All will start with different levels of knowledge. Interesting?

So, grasshopper, the lesson for today is over. Go hit the books!

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Jul 15, 2004

Here is a poem that is very approprate for the ADN vs BSN debate, union nurses vs nurses against unions, day shift vs nights shift, etc. Maybe even republican nurses vs democrat nurses?

*Seven Nurses*

Seven nurses trapped by happenstance

In the dark and bitter cold.

Each one possessed a stick of wood,

Or so the story's told.

Their dying fire in need of logs,

The first nurse held hers tight.

For on the faces around the fire,

Was that's a nurse who works at night.

The night nurse looking cross the way,

Saw one not of her shift,

And wouldn't give her stick of wood

To give the fire a lift.

The third nurse noticed in the group

One that wanted to unionize,

"Why should I use my stick of wood

To warm someone I despise?"

The management nurse sat in deep thought,

(Her mind not on the fire)

Of ways to stretch this small staff

Without having to hire.

The floor nurse's face bespoke revenge

as the fire passed from sight,

For all she saw in her stick of wood

Was a chance for spite tonight.

The nurse with the BSN sat and watched

As the fire began to dim.

"My degree is more important than his

I'll put mine in after him."

The last nurse of this forlorn group

Did naught except for gain

Giving only to those who gave

Was how he played the game.

The logs held tight in death's still hands

Was proof of how we sin.

They didn't die from the cold without,

They died from--THE COLD WITHIN

]

zenman · Jul 15, 2004

Posted by earle58:you question your patients' educational level before teaching them?????????????????????????

It's on every hospital assessment form I've ever seen. Patient education is a part of BSN educaion. You must know your patients level of education!! There is a reason the Reader's Digest writes all it's articles at a 4th grade reading level. Sad, isn't it?

i asked you for your sources regarding the 15 proclamations of more educated nurses. it sounds falsely reported, or certainly not a source of anything legitimate. please, i eagerly await your response.

I'm in the middle of packing for a move. However, I can do the same as you and search for knowledge per http://www.google.com. I'll see if I can find it for you on the net. See previous post about BSN program objectives for the NSU College of Nursing...# 9.

zenman · Jul 15, 2004

Posted by earle58:again, please provide these references. seeing is believing.

Not necessarily; have you had courses in research and statistics?

zenman · Jul 15, 2004

Posted by 3rdShiftGuy:No, but you certainly assess their cognitive ability, etc. do you not?

Certainly...and their educational level. If I was teaching a class to M.D.s it would be at a different level than if I were teaching high school kids.

Wife is asking me to go walking at the beach. Back shortly. Eat your hearts out. I'm coming honey! :rotfl:

zenman · Jul 15, 2004

Posted by earle58: so it's just as simple as that....all nurses are created equal with the simple production of a bsn degree....voila!

Now you're starting to get it! All nurses should have at least a 4 yr degree as do most other professions. The fact that we have three entry levels is one of the reasons nursing is off track.

there goes the oppression, the violence, the abuse, the shortage and all other pertinent nsg. issues.

Nope, that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. However, if there was only one entry degree, not a single nurse could complain about their peers in relation to who has the best education. That would be one problem out of the way.

unless i'm totally blank this moment, i cannot recall any issues in the workplace that revolve around degreed vs. non-degreed nurses. and as we are very familiar with that ubiquitous cliche re: nurses treating each other so horribly, that would still remain as long as mgmt. undervalues us. it's not a 'degree' issue but moreover i think, an image issue. to this day, we're still perceived as the honorable, self-sacrificing martyrs with much nobility and little power. it is a definite image problem.

The less of an educational gap between nurses and management (and physicians) the better things "can be." BSN nurses study management and have an understanding of organizational structure and the roles of management, for example.

with that said, if attainable, i would encourage all nurses to get their bsn's IF they receive the necessary clinical experience that the adn does receive. there are many nurses i know that are awe-inspiring, yet i have no idea what credentials/degrees they hold. a few that come to mind are lpns. so while the ideal and a small part of the solution might be to attain our bsns, i think there are much bigger fish to fry and far too many more critical issues at hand rather than a bsn that could perceivably be considered pretentious in the grand scheme of things.

Pretentious?? Having the same entry level of education as other recognized professions is pretentious? Now I hear talk that 4 yrs of college may not be enough in today's world. So...how far behind are we, now?