warning to all excelsior students- i want all potential and current students to know what happened to my girlfriend. take it for what its worth. my girlfriend was a california excelsior student for 6 long yrs (worked full time, supported and took care of her 3 kids) . she spent thousands & thousands of dollars for very expensive books, tests (about $200 per test). skills bags ($150), dvd ($130) , flashcards ($25), audio cd ($25), workshop ($700), and the outrageously expensive and outrageously easy to fail cpne (the 3 day clinical examination that must be passed to receive your rn degree). she failed the first cpne (as way more than half do). that meant another $1800 to retake that. of course, there were airline tickets (about $500 per trip x 2), hotels (about $450 per cpne) and car rentals ($250 per trip). all together she spent close to $20,000 to obtain what is essentially a worthless degree. not one of the 14 hospitals she contacted would hire her when she told them she was an excelsior graduate. are you hearing me? not one. so, when they tell you they're accredited, yada,yada,yada - remember it doesn't mean you can get a job. she tried to enroll in 3 regular, legit college programs. they all refused her because she already had her degree and rn license. so now, she can't even do that. excelsior knew years ago there was a problem. they had the opportunity to work with the ca board of registered nursing. they didn't. if you don't believe me - go to their site. type in 'excelsior' and see for yourself. also, go to georgia's nursing website. see the problems there. nurses are being denied jobs because they're excelsior graduates!!! don't let this happen to you. go to a respected and accepted college.
Finally, it didn't help to have a preceptor who took delight in devouring her preceptee, leaving me with a sour taste of nursing and my preparation for entering nursing.
Yikes. "Nurses eat their young," personified ... sorry you had such a bad experience! My preceptor was fabulous and supportive, as were all my RN coworkers. I've been working in an ER for 4+ years now, so I can't say if my in-hospital experience made a difference or not, but before I finished orientation, I was able to provide care to multiple patients without a problem. I can have up to 5 patients at a time during a shift, and very rarely do I need to ask for help from another RN -- but I don't hesitate to ask for it if I need it, either. Granted, you can't be everywhere at once, but being able to use critical thinking to effectively prioritize care is something that can take time to master.
1. Awards are usually bought and paid for in one way or another.
2. Although cyclical trends do occur, there is a regression into the demise of EC's acceptability. Soon there will be nothing left but Alaska, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. And then you will have to move to 2 of 3 states in a particular timed sequence to be validated temporarily only in the 3rd state - ha-ha (the GIG is UP!).
3. Because it has been good in the past, because they set a standard they let slip through their hands (from GREED), and good has graduated from them has NOTHING to do with the trend in (GW Bush) Depression era for States to protect their economic turf. Primary educated students could see this. Only Chinese spammers imaginably could not understand this fact.
4. LPNs drop out of AP1, AP2, and Micro daily. RN is a (College) level of education above (trade school) LPN (education), and who deserves the trust and pay levels they get. Just because someone gets their LPN in 10 months, and gets paid for 20 years (sometimes doing CNA work) just means it took them that long to get somewhere others took 3-1/2 yrs to get RN/ADN. Pay now or pay later. The goal is RN, and years of LPN experience means it took you that long to figure out how to do it.
CNA's are saying the same thing about LPN's with 20 years of CNA experience. :chuckle:chuckle:chuckle
And I would be proud to be an LPN on my way to RN, but I would not be one for over a couple of years. And when I get my RN/ADN, I'll get my BN and MN within the next couple of years. That's the plan anyway, and you have to plan to achieve your goals in the FIRST place!!
I would love to see her statistics! I went to a trad. school for my prereqs A&P,Micro, etc....I received 4.0 perfect grades in all and guess what I am an LPN. Shocking huh. You are very close minded and I truly feel sorry for people like you. When I do get my RN another shocker my job will be exactly the same(already doing the work of RN's) just higher pay. I am not doing the work of a CNA so please get your info. straight. Last time I checked too I have never seen a CNA no matter how much experience pass meds. or do wound care. I love the CNA's I do work with and have respect for what they do and I hope if you are in the health care field you keep your judgements home instead of divisive thinking.
Wow, your post came across almost like a personal attack. I'm sorry if you were offended by what I had to say, but my facts are straight:
1) As of July, 2008, Georgia does NOT grant RN licenses for EC ADN program graduates or recognize their licenses from other states by endorsement. Go to the Georgia Board of Nursing website to verify this (http://sos.georgia.gov/plb/rn/). Because of the public outcry and the impact on existing students, the Board of Nursing amended their policies at a special called meeting in December, 2008, so that EC graduates who are licensed in another state can be considered for licensure by endorsement on a case by case basis. This information can be found at http://sos.georgia.gov/plb/rn/minutes/20081219%20Conference%20Call.pdf. Here is information lifted directly the meetings of that minute:
Applicant must have been actively enrolled in a nursing program on July 1, 2008.
Applicant must have completed all program requirements and successfully graduated from the program by July 1, 2010.
Applicant must hold a valid license from another state or jurisdiction as required for licensure by endorsement and have applied for endorsement in Georgia by December 31, 2010.
Applicant must comply with procedure for rule waiver/variance as provided by the Administrative Procedure Act (APA) in O.C.G.A. 50-13-9.1.
Mrs. Ayers seconded the motion and it carried with Dr. Flynn abstaining.
This amendment was done to accomodate current EC students who have already invested time and money into the program, but this option will cease in 2010, giving current students the chance to finish but barring future students from consideration. Please note that the EC graduate must hold a license in another state prior to petitioning GA for licensure by endorsement. I live in Georgia and have been keeping abreast of this development. I also wrote a paper on this for one of my EC courses last semester, and at the time contacted the GA Nurses Association, the GA Board of Nursing, and EC administration, and received email replies from all of them. What are your sources?
2) Please go back and re-read my original post. I did say I could see EC's ADN program being a viable option for an LPN, and that would include an LVN as well. I agree with you, that many LPNs and LVNs have years of clinical experience which is a good foundation for any RN program. BUT--although most LPNs/LVNs like to think they are equivalent to RNs, they do not have the same education/knowledge/training base as RNs. If they did, there would be need for different educational degrees or different levels of licensing. Your clinical experience is at the LVN level, not at the RN level. An LVN does not have ANY RN level experience, utilizing RN level skills. A new RN graduate does have clinical experience at the RN level, employing RN level knowlede and skills.
3) I honestly don't know if EC allows EMTs into their ADN program. I may have incorrectly substituted EMT for Paramedic. I really don't know the difference between the two. Sorry for that.
How exactly does an LPN not have ANY RN level experience utilizing RN level skills? I can name two hospitals here that the LPNs and RNs work sise by side on the same med. surg. unit, mom baby unit etc... doing exactly the same thing, same skills. The only thing that the LPN cannot do on those units is push a narcotic med. through an IV line other then that they get the same report, same amount of patients, same type of patients, do the same care plans, supervise the same staff, chart the same, same wound care, same meds, same resp. therapy. Maybe where you work it isn't like that but other places do see the value of what LPN's do and are capable of. When I get my RN license the only difference will be the pay-not one skill will be different so please get your facts straight.
Please read-it helps to be informed instead of making judgements. The biggest differences between paramedics and EMTs are the training and the scope of practice (what they are allowed to do). Basic EMTs usually receive 120 - 150 hours of training, while paramedics get anywhere from 1,200 hours to 1,800 hours of training. Paramedic programs often award two-year degrees.
The scope of practice differences between EMTs and paramedics can be summed up by the ability to break the skin. Most states do not allow basic emergency medical technicians to give shots or start intravenous lifelines. Paramedics, on the other hand, can give shots as well as use more advanced airway management devices to support breathing. Basic EMTs are usually restricted to using oxygen, glucose, asthma inhalers, and epinephrine auto-injectors (a common exception to the no-needles rule). Paramedics are trained in the use of 30-40 medications, depending on the state.
the problem with excelsior started to appear around 2001-2002....it stemmed from a few shady publishing companies that got a few boards of nursing questioning excelsior (the big one was in utah). some of the long timers on here remember the big ordeal. it has been a downward cascade since then. those interested can research this and draw their own conclusions...it's a dead horse for sure. as a graduate of excelsior i have the right to voice my dissatisfaction in how they managed dealing with some of the boards and shady companies...the intervention was a day to late in my opinion. if some of the early concerns had been nipped in the bud we may not have seen this backlash. i realize some of you are pretty new to excelsior and have not followed the state by state sanctions over the past few years...i have. i started the program in 2001 and passed boards in 2005. i started when the only sanctions were the ones that had been around forever (illinois was virtually the only state requiring experience and case by case decisions). since around 2002 when a publishing company started some havoc in utah, and then california banned excelsior, the downslide has continued. yes, excelsior is an alternative that is so welcomed by many but i would not recommend it unless you have absolutely no other alternative. i started when there really were no sanctions and wouldn't start today with all the sanctions. i am pretty much grandfathered in all the banned states but would hate to be a new graduate and restricted...life takes you places you least expect. i don't knock the program because it worked for me but with today's knowledge i don't advocate it either. if you only have this alternative--do it and keep abreast the changes, if you can any way possible do another program--do that and not worry about all these board decisions.
pedinurse05 is pretty much the only one who answered this in clear non-defensive manner who is an actual graduate of the school, so thanks for that....statements like "hmmm, maybe it time to start thinking of "traditional" programs as outdated and obsolete." is just emotional ignorance, but i'll overlook it.
i understand peoples defensiveness on the school, since you dropped a lot of money into it, i would probably do the same thing, the state school route is what works best for me and luckily i am already in...hopefully ec can gain it's reputation back at some point in all states.
ok off to other forums, retiring this one...too bad the guy who started it hasnt logged back in...
Hi everyone. I am new here. I am an experienced medic, new RN, graduated from EC, and got my first nursing job (MICU) and after only a short stint, find myself working again as a medic, turned off by nursing, at least for the foreseeable future. For paramedics considering ec, the biggest issue I can see for ec grads is the lack of in-hospital clinical experience. Again, in-hospital experience. I am not including a medic's truck time - simply our time in hospital is abbreviated compared to a nursing student. That being said, it is my experience that acquiring the technical skills of an RN (foley caths, care of vent/trach patients, tube feedings, wound care, etc.) is technically no more difficult than starting an IV or other medic function. However, I think a paramedic ec graduate may have difficulty (as I did) with the following: We are used to one patient at a time. Managing 3 critical patients for 12 hours is nothing short of overwhelming for a new nurse. No wonder lunch is 15 minutes, if you eat at all. Med-surge, from what I hear, is no better - lower acuity, but more patients. A graduate of ec's program who was a paramedic most certainly struggles with handling multiple patients. Maybe someone can answer the following: Are traditional nursing students taught during their clinical time to manage multiple patients, and to what extent do they care for patients in each setting and exactly what areas of the hospital do they do clinicals in so that a paramedic may compare it with his/her hospital training? I hope this opens up some posts on comparisons of clinical experiences of the two professions. Finally, it didn't help to have a preceptor who took delight in devouring her preceptee, leaving me with a sour taste of nursing and my preparation for entering nursing. This definitely was a factor in my bad first experience with nursing, but truly I don't think it was the sole reason I felt so uncomfortable. My education to become a paramedic was excellent - I was very prepared to enter my profession. I do not want to "blame" ec for my disappointment with nursing, but I do want to warn others that I felt ill prepared to function in a hospital setting. For my paramedic audience, it would be like going through didactic, passing the certification exam, and then starting to work, bypassing the clinical training. You probably had seen the equipment before in passing as an emt, but now you are required to use these tools to effect interventions safely. I am sorry if I offend anyone out there - but honest acknowledgement of my experience, albeit negative, may help others make their own decision when deciding what path to take them to nursing.
As a prarmedic who just completed the program, I agree with you somewhat. I took it upon myself to leave the truck (albeit a $20,000 a year pay cut) to become a nurse tech in the ER. That is where I got my experience with handling multiple patients and doing the foleys and other stuff. Perhaps that is a bit of advice to other medics thinking about the program.
Not yelling here, DebFay, but as a paramedic I can clarify the difference to you. It is like comparing the difference in education between a CNA and an RN. No offense to CNA's... I love ya'll. But just to let you know that there is a huge difference.
Not yelling here, DebFay, but as a paramedic I can clarify the difference to you. It is like comparing the difference in education between a CNA and an RN. No offense to CNA's... I love ya'll. But just to let you know that there is a huge difference.
Could you please quantify that for those who would like to learn from your expertise?
For example 10 month full time 40 hr/week vs 24 month 25 hr/week, etc...
Lunah, MSN, RN
14 Articles; 13,773 Posts
Yikes. "Nurses eat their young," personified ... sorry you had such a bad experience!
My preceptor was fabulous and supportive, as were all my RN coworkers. I've been working in an ER for 4+ years now, so I can't say if my in-hospital experience made a difference or not, but before I finished orientation, I was able to provide care to multiple patients without a problem. I can have up to 5 patients at a time during a shift, and very rarely do I need to ask for help from another RN -- but I don't hesitate to ask for it if I need it, either. Granted, you can't be everywhere at once, but being able to use critical thinking to effectively prioritize care is something that can take time to master.