University of Alberta BScN Program

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Dec 15, 2009

That's what we're hearing too. One of my friends completed a post-basic baccalaureate at U of A and she was VERY disapproving of CBL.

Cupid14 · Dec 19, 2009

Well, I may present a biased opinion.. but I am a first year student and Grant MacEwan. I was just like you, coming straight out of high school. I have only heard good things about Grant MacEwan.

I know people who did the transfer program before MacEwan could offer the degree, and they urged me to go to Grant and skip the U of A at ALL costs.

I know someone who took her first year at the U of A and hated it, switched to Grant and is now in her 3rd year, and loving it.

.. now this is just a rumor I heard.. but I've heard that the U of A nursing students sometime get to come to Grant Mac to use our new, multimillion dollar simulation labs!

When I was in gr 12 trying to decide where I wanted to go.. I could only envision myself at the U. It has such a great history and an amazing community, so going there, I think, would be an awesome experience. However, if you're looking for a better program, from what I've heard, and my first semester experience, I would suggest Grant Mac.

Series298 · Dec 19, 2009

I am currently a 3rd year nursing student at Grant MacEwan. As the program is fairly new, there are still kinks to be worked out in the program but overall it is very good. Having a brand new facility and new technology is a definite plus. I have spoken with quite a few students from the U of A nursing program and none of them had positive things to say about the program. Being that the U of A uses CBL in the nursing program, you will being researching and teaching yourself alot of the material. Grant MacEwan used to use CBL, but since the new BSc Nursing program, they have gone back to the more traditional means of teaching. Overall, I do quite enjoy my educational experience at Grant MacEwan University thus far. I would highly recommend it over U of A.

Fiona59 · Dec 19, 2009

And for what its worth, working nurses prefer the students from GMU over UofA. The GM students are more willing to do hands on the patient learning.

caramelgalore · Dec 20, 2009

Thanks for all the replies guys. Another question though, isn't CBL supposed to be a good thing? Isn't it supposed to help students more so in the long run so they can get used to always thinking on their feet? And also, wouldn't the preference of the working nurses change based on each nurse? Or are all UofA nurses all just trained to not like hands on work?

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Dec 20, 2009

From my conversations with my coworker who completed the post-basic baccalaureate, CBL is really a free-form make-it-up-as-you-go-along sort of learning method. Working in a group has its own problems as well since one or two members of the group will do all the thinking and work while the rest just go along for the ride... CBL might be an effective learning tool for those who are already working in nursing and have the clinical background to make sense of it all, but I think it's a poor alternative to structured education for the new-to-nursing. You can't learn to be a nurse from a book.

The U of A has a very elitist view of nursing and the content of some lectures reflects the pervasive attitude that nursing is somehow esoteric and not grounded in hard work. To them nurses are thinker/planners and someone else is the get-your-hands-dirty doer. The denigration of labour unions the faculty espouses is hard to overlook, since nursing would not have the degree of respect is commands these days without the unions fighting for more than just scraps. The attitude is that unionism reflects blue-collar values and not professionalism that demands respect as a matter of course. Other professions have unions that fight for their rights and privileges, they just don't call them unions... they're professional associations: the Alberta Bar Association, the Alberta Medical Association, the Health Sciences Association of Alberta... they're all doing much the same as the United Nurses of Alberta. And CARNA just adds to the confusion by clouding issues. They insist on more and more academic and liberal-arts education for nurses but at the same time state that having a nursing attendant bathe patients causes the professional nurse to lose the opportunity to perform a hundred assessments necessary to the planning of care. So which is it?

Fiona59 · Dec 20, 2009

Jan: I think that is the best sum up of the state of nursing in Alberta today.

The U's students hit the floor with what can only be described as "I'm to posh to wash". Their students have no clue as to the roles of other healthcare workers on the floor. We've had their students try to delegate their am/hs care to the NAs and LPNs on my unit. Rationale from one student was "I'll be a manager in a few years, so I have to practice my delegations skills now". Uhm, no. Wash your own patient. They have no clue as to what an NA can do and treat the PNs as their inferiors. Some instructors groups are worse than others. But when it comes to the hard, physical side of nursing, GMs students seem to at least expect it. The U's seem to think it will be done by someone other than an RN.

But then these are the same students who are usually appalled to learn that they will be buddied up with LPNs to learn the ropes on many of their placements.

linzz · Dec 21, 2009

Two very experienced RN relatives of mine precept many new RN students and both have told me that the students have lots of knowledge but they just don't get that they have to do bedside care.

One of my relatives actually had to severely reprimand the last two preceptees for the very poor care they have provided. They were told to pretend that,your patient is your mother in that bed, and that there is no maid to pick up the laundry, put call bell within reach, fill water jug etc. Because of the very unrealistic ideas these students have, they will not be offered positions in that unit.

It is very sad that some students are just not seeing that nursing in most Canadian hospitals means that the nurse does much of the care. I also have two other relatives who don't precept but have confirmed this very disturbing trend among some new graduates, but not all, thank goodness.

So let's hope that the lousy new grads don't make it that much harder for those that are not "too posh to wash" (I love that line).

HB88 · Dec 21, 2009

I just graduated from the program and I wanted to address a lot of the things being said. The "too posh to wash" item I've never heard in my life, first year at the U of A will kill you if feel that way. There are many people who enter nursing and use it as an option to move onto other things and they may have this attitude and they're not exclusive to the U of A. As for nurses preferring students from one program to the other, it depends on who you talk to. Some nurses may prefer one over the other but should you really listen to people who assign all students in a program into a category based on limited experience?

The program itself is a challenge to adjust to, especially straight out of high school. I did the same thing myself, just know that you're essentially teaching yourself and you're responsible for your own learning. Don't rely on group work or the group compiled research and don't take a lot of the brainstorming topics seriously because there's quite a bit of stupid stuff that you have to research. Know about client, growth and development, pharm, physiology, and how you would use the nursing process (assessment, diagnosis, goals, interventions and rationale, and outcomes). For what it's worth I was in the last year for GM transfer students and many of them had no experience writing care plans and you'll have that at the very least. Just remember to stay calm and know that you'll be alright, first year is by FAR the hardest and if you ever need anything please feel free to message me. Also your mark depends heavily on who your tutor is, so try to get on their good side but don't brown nose. Just demonstrate good critical thinking skills and an ability to understand the material and issues at hand and you should be fine but if you run into a witch just bear with it and know that even if you get a C, it's not the end of the world. I personally appreciate CBL because it's given me the ability to educate myself which is very important, as a nurse it's your job to keep up to date on the latest advances and evidence, it's hard to know that you're paying to teach yourself but many, many good nurses have resulted from the CBL program. Best of luck to you :)

linzz · Dec 21, 2009

Could someone please explain exactly how CBL works.

I did my degree a long time ago and classes were taught in a traditional way and research work was done outside of classs. Does this system mean that you are responsible for learning all of the material yourself? Does your tutor actually teach students how to research and interpret research findings properly, including statistical data?

linzz · Dec 21, 2009

Could someone please explain exactly how CBL works.
I did my degree a long time ago and classes were taught in a traditional way and research work was done outside of classs. Does this system mean that you are responsible for learning all of the material yourself? Does your tutor actually teach students how to research and interpret research findings properly, including statistical data?

I don't mean to sound harsh with the above post. It just seems like it would be very challenging to have to teach oneself much of the material. I am just hoping that the tutor gives lots of guidance. JMO.