After posting the piece about Nurses traveling to Germany and reading the feedback. I would like to open up a debate on this BB about "Universal Health Care" or "Single Payor Systems"
In doing this I hope to learn more about each side of the issue. I do not want to turn this into a heated horrific debate that ends in belittling one another as some other charged topics have ended, but a genuine debate about the Pros and Cons of proposed "Universal Health Care or Single Payor systems" I believe we can all agree to debate and we can all learn things we might not otherwise have the time to research.
I am going to begin by placing an article that discusses the cons of Universal Health Care with some statistics, and if anyone is willing please come in and try to debate some of the key points this brings up. With stats not hyped up words or hot air. I am truly interested in seeing the different sides of this issue. This effects us all, and in order to make an informed decision we need to see "all" sides of the issue. Thanks in advance for participating.
Michele
I am going to have to post the article in several pieces because the bulletin board only will allow 3000 characters.So see the next posts.
I absolutely agree with you! I was in a mood about the whole issue of corporate welfare today and that is where the links came from. (I am quite sure if you dug into these companies employee benefit packages you would find more and more ways to "cost shift" health care expenses to employees.)
I wish I had the freedom to decide how to allocate the fruits of my labor.
By force of law a form of involuntary servitude is forcing me to support subsidies to oil companies, General Electric, IBM, General Motors, and other for profit international corporations that lay off American workers.
Does the government have the right to place a burden on taxpayers to the benefit of faceless corporations?.
The health care system in the UK is a joke! Lets hope that's why the US hasn't picked it up yet. With the way we enforce our immigration policies how could anyone even think that universal care would be the right way to go?
With "Medicare for All" the existing system would be improved. medicare does not run hospitals or employ physicians, nurses, and other healthcare providers.
Top 10 Reasons For Enacting a Single Payer Healthcare System
1. Everybody in, nobody out. Universal means access to healthcare for everyone, period.
2. Portability. Even if you are unemployed, or lose or change your job, your health coverage goes with you.
3. Uniform benefits. No Cadillac plans for the wealthy and Pinto plans for everyone else, with high deductibles, limited services, caps on payments for care, and no protection in the event of a catastrophe. One level of comprehensive care no matter what size your wallet.
4. Prevention. By removing financial roadblocks, a single payer system encourages preventive care that lowers an individual’s ultimate cost and pain and suffering when problems are neglected, and societal cost in the over utilization of emergency rooms or the spread of communicable diseases.
5. Choice of physician. Most private plans restrict what doctors, other caregivers, or hospital you can use. Under a single payer system, patients have a choice, and the provider is assured a fair reimbursement.
6. Ending insurance industry interference with care. Caregivers and patients regain the autonomy to make decisions on what’s best for a patient’s health, not what’s dictated by the billing department or the bean counters. No denial of coverage due to pre-existing conditions or cancellation of policies for “unreported” minor health problems.
7. Reducing administrative waste. One third of every health care dollar goes
for paperwork, such as denying care, and profits, compared to about 3% under Medicare, a single-payer, universal system.
8. Cost savings. A single payer system would produce the savings needed to cover everyone, largely by using existing resources without the waste. Taiwan, shifting from a U.S. healthcare model, adopted a single-payer system in 1995, boosting health coverage from 57% to 97% with little if any increase in overall healthcare spending.
9. Common sense budgeting. The public system sets fair reimbursements applied equally to all providers while assuring all comprehensive and appropriate health care is delivered, and uses its clout to negotiate volume discounts for prescription drugs and medical equipment.
10. Public oversight. The public sets the policies and administers the system, not high pricedCEOs meeting in secret and making decisions based on what inflates their compensation packages or stock wealth or company profits.
I wish I had Medicare For All right now, my inflammatory arthritis is kicking my butt today, and the free clinic still wont refer me to a rheumatologist.
I wish I had Medicare For All right now, my inflammatory arthritis is kicking my butt today, and the free clinic still wont refer me to a rheumatologist.
After all the years of nursing you deserve the best healthcare.
70% of Canadians say that their biggest fear is being forced to adopt a US Health Care type system. You think our "System" is superior? Much has indicated otherwise.
LOL - ok - I am not really on either side of this arguement, but you need to be a touch more informed on issues before you wade in heavy handedly my friend.
First of all - where do you get those stats? I have many Canadian friends and they describe a pretty messed up system to me. They have told me that people sometimes wait months for a surgery they would get here overnight. Can you imagine waiting for lap chole surgery? Cook County hospital (I work there occasionally) is a socialistic system and I can tell you - it is not a star studded system. Yes - it is free to the residents of Cook County, but they have to wait in line to be seen and I personally have seen an 8 month wait for an "elective" lap chole. If you were in almost constant pain would you want it to take that long?
Secondly, I think the education crisis is more complicated that it sounds. Did you know some Asian countries have a test in (I believe) 8th grade and the poorer performers are yanked from school? Is it fair to compare our full complement of students to their brightest stars?
Lastly, I do agree our system is broken. However giving the poorest in our country another thing to feel entitled to may not be the best option. I have a brother-in-law whom I cannot stand. He is perfectly healthy with a wife and now 3 kids (5yrs -6months). He doesnt work anymore since getting fired from McDonalds for not showing up on time and absenteeism. He now sits at home collects WIC for his kids and wife, plays online poker, has medicaid, and is proud of it. He brags that he does better not even working than he did when he worked some. Entitlement is the last thing lazy a**es like him need. A friend described the Israeli policy for the poor and immigrants from Russia a while back - he said initially they were given 100% free rent and food, but were told they had 2 years to become self-sufficient. As time went on their supplementation from the govt dried up. As a whole they country was able to bring 1million Russians who did not speak the language into the country (of around 5million total), taught them the language, and made them self-sufficient in 2 years. IF you know you have a boot waiting for your ass, it can light quite a fire under people. Unfortunately we allow people like my brotherinlaw to act like he is the injured and abused one if we try those tactics. Get those people up to a functioning level, then we can help those who cannot help themselves AND compete in the global market without such an issue. Healthcare and Education are huge issues, but so is our overall attitude toward things. Help people YES, ENTITLEMENT - NO!!!
Lastly, I do agree our system is broken. However giving the poorest in our country another thing to feel entitled to may not be the best option. I have a brother-in-law whom I cannot stand. He is perfectly healthy with a wife and now 3 kids (5yrs -6months). He doesnt work anymore since getting fired from McDonalds for not showing up on time and absenteeism. He now sits at home collects WIC for his kids and wife, plays online poker, has medicaid, and is proud of it. He brags that he does better not even working than he did when he worked some. Entitlement is the last thing lazy a**es like him need. Unfortunately we allow people like my brotherinlaw to act like he is the injured and abused one if we try those tactics. Get those people up to a functioning level, then we can help those who cannot help themselves AND compete in the global market without such an issue. Healthcare and Education are huge issues, but so is our overall attitude toward things. Help people YES, ENTITLEMENT - NO!!!
states that in order to qualify for medicaid, you must be
1.A reletive caretaker of a deprived child.
2.Pregnant
3.Under Age 19
4.Age 65 or older
5.Blind or Disabled
I have applied for Social Security Disability, am still waiting for approval 1 1/2 years later. I do not qualify for Medicaid.Its not because I have any money left, I dont, my savings are gone.How does an able bodied person such as your brother in law qualify as disabled? This does not jive.The disability approval process is long and ardouous, I dont know if he has had any reviews yet, but he will not be able to continue getting Medicaid, or SSI without proving disability. I worked for 27 years as a nurse, never asked for a dime, yet am living off the charity of my children until I get approved for SSDI. Yes our system is broken, all the more reason to get it fixed, FAST.
it has become abundantly clear to me that healthcare in the united states has little to do with your welfare or mine. it is about the flow of money. out of our pockets and into the hands of the for-profit insurance industry and the other power center in america, banks and financial institutions.
the mind reels at the shameless exploitation of the american people.
this is what passes for normal in 2007 in the united states of america.
and this is why we must challenge our congress (it belongs to us, not them), to expose this corruption to the american people. but since most of these fine congresspeople and u.s, senators, are wholly owned by those they must investigate, making this happen won't be easy.
are you surprised that the political class and i mean almost all of them, hiccups--or worse, does nothing?
john conyers, lead the charge, we can't wait any longer.
states that in order to qualify for medicaid, you must be
1.A reletive caretaker of a deprived child.
2.Pregnant
3.Under Age 19
4.Age 65 or older
5.Blind or Disabled
I have applied for Social Security Disability, am still waiting for approval 1 1/2 years later. I do not qualify for Medicaid.Its not because I have any money left, I dont, my savings are gone.How does an able bodied person such as your brother in law qualify as disabled? This does not jive.The disability approval process is long and ardouous, I dont know if he has had any reviews yet, but he will not be able to continue getting Medicaid, or SSI without proving disability. I worked for 27 years as a nurse, never asked for a dime, yet am living off the charity of my children until I get approved for SSDI. Yes our system is broken, all the more reason to get it fixed, FAST.
Thank you for posting this ingelein. Posts like Goof feed into the perception that there are large numbers of healthy, able-bodied people scamming the system when the truth is that it is exceedingly difficult in this country to get welfare, disability or Medicaid or any other help. Georgia is similar to Wisconsin in that unless you are a child or totally disabled you are not going to get Medicaid. Period. My mother who was a nurse went blind in addition to several other chronic health problems for which she was hospitalized 4-5 times a year and she was denied disability on her first couple of tries. After a year or so and with the help of an attorney, she was finally able to get her disability benefits. Thank goodness, she had health insurance from her job so that she does not have to do the Medicaid thing and my father can provide for her other needs. Coincidentally I work in a rheumatology practice and daily I see people who can barely walk due to joint damage, deformity and pain and these people get the bare minimum in benefits if any at all.
Goof, I hate to call you out but I don't believe that your BIL is getting Medicaid or any other welfare benefits. WIC, maybe because that is relatively easy to get but not any thing else. Perhaps he is lying to you to get under your skin.
OH, actually he lives in Illinois - not Wisconsin sorry. As for Medicaid - Im not sure how they get it - it might be through Medicare, but I dont know how he is scamming the system. All I know is that he is - sad isnt it?
As for me feeding into the misconception - IT IS NOT a misconception in this case. He is 100% able -bodied and unemployed. As for the nationwide numbers I cannot attest to that. I am very sorry to hear of your difficulties though.
A question for you sharon - if it states clearly that if you are blind you get Medicaid - why would she be turned down? Seems a tad odd......
A question for you sharon - if it states clearly that if you are blind you get Medicaid - why would she be turned down? Seems a tad odd......
She didn't need Medicaid so she never applied; she had her own health insurance. It was her disability benefits- aka SSDI, not SSI- that she was turned down for initially but eventually able to recover. And since she had been working continuously since she was 15 years old, there is no doubt that she has paid her dues and paid into the system.
And yes, it is odd that she had to go to those lengths when she was clearly disabled, had lots of proof but I have since learned that the SSA almost always automatically turn down those who apply for either SSDI or SSI so you can be safely assured that deadbeats and goldbricks are not easily collecting these benefits.
HM2VikingRN, RN
4,700 Posts
I absolutely agree with you! I was in a mood about the whole issue of corporate welfare today and that is where the links came from. (I am quite sure if you dug into these companies employee benefit packages you would find more and more ways to "cost shift" health care expenses to employees.)