Universal Healthcare

Nurses Activism

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  1. Do you think the USA should switch to government run universal healthcare?

    • 129
      Yes. Universal Healthcare is the best solution to the current healthcare problems.
    • 67
      No. Universal healthcare is not the answer as care is poor, and taxes would have to be increased too high.
    • 23
      I have no idea, as I do not have enough information to make that decision.
    • 23
      I think that free market healthcare would be the best solution.

242 members have participated

After posting the piece about Nurses traveling to Germany and reading the feedback. I would like to open up a debate on this BB about "Universal Health Care" or "Single Payor Systems"

In doing this I hope to learn more about each side of the issue. I do not want to turn this into a heated horrific debate that ends in belittling one another as some other charged topics have ended, but a genuine debate about the Pros and Cons of proposed "Universal Health Care or Single Payor systems" I believe we can all agree to debate and we can all learn things we might not otherwise have the time to research.

I am going to begin by placing an article that discusses the cons of Universal Health Care with some statistics, and if anyone is willing please come in and try to debate some of the key points this brings up. With stats not hyped up words or hot air. I am truly interested in seeing the different sides of this issue. This effects us all, and in order to make an informed decision we need to see "all" sides of the issue. Thanks in advance for participating.

Michele

I am going to have to post the article in several pieces because the bulletin board only will allow 3000 characters.So see the next posts.

It interesting in observing this thread, that supporters of universal healthcare quite often argue from data - actual facts comparing the performance of one system to another - see posts 3 and 5 back at the begining of the thread, or my own 106 lately. The opponents of universal care, argue from ideology and prejudice and never offer any data to support their positions - not surprisingly since there ARE no data that support their positions. They do throw in the odd complete non-sequiter about salary levels or whatnot, but never any actual data.

That's not unique to here of course, since I have argued this subject is lots of different forums and never yet seen a defender of the status quo produce actual data or references to where to find data.

It's strange though, since most of us, at least those who went through a BRN or Masters program, were exposed to some education on interpreting scientific articles and what valid evidence looks like. I guess when one's prejudice is engaged, no amount of evidence is enough.

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Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.
The Edwards Plan:

Require businesses and other employers to either cover their employees or help finance their health insurance.

Make insurance affordable by creating new tax credits, expanding Medicaid and SCHIP, reforming insurance laws, and taking innovative steps to contain health care costs.

Create regional Health Markets purchasing pools to give every American the bargaining power to purchase an affordable, high-quality health plan, increase choices among insurance plans, and cut costs for businesses offering insurance.

Once these steps have been taken, require all American residents to get insurance.

Under the Edwards Plan:

Families without insurance will get coverage at an affordable price.

Families with insurance will pay less and get more security and choices.

Businesses and other employers will find it cheaper and easier to insure their workers.

http://johnedwards.com/about/issues/health-care-overview.pdf

I like Edwards

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Social security is going bankrupt and medicare reimbursement is a joke. How can SS be working if we constantly here liberals decry elderly choosing between (take your pick) gas, medicine, smokes, alcohol, etc... and food? Please don't tell me Liberals are just fearmongering that would be a total shock to the rest of us.

As usual you ignore the central point(s)

1. SS is hardly broke. (Even if we did absolutely nothing to reform the system it would still pay out at least 75% of promised benefits in 2042 plus it is much more efficient.)

2. Medicare's financial problems can be attributed in large part to the allegedly efficient private Medicare Advantage Plans. These cost approximately 20% more than FFS Medicare.

3. Administrative costs for private Health care in the US eat up 25% of premium dollars.

What you (endlessly) call fear mongering is a simple recognition of the fact that large segments of our economy do face the choice each and every day whether to pay for gasoline to get to work or whether they can afford care for their health problems.

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from page 1/11 kitkat24, thank you sooooo much for your proposed questions on this topic. Now, there is someone using their noggin for something other than a hat rack. If I have put the time in to be an LPN, RN, BSN, MSN etc. There is no way in HADES that I will EXCEPT the pay of a Masters degreed Social Worker....$19,000 a year folks. Can you live on that salary alone? At today's prices....5-10-15 years from now? sure, you may want to learn how to say, "Pass the newspaper i am cold, while your up honey, fix the tape on the cardboard box house door, the wind is blowing in."

Not supported by the evidence. I work in the VA system. I happened to be talking with a Masters level Social Worker yesterday. She makes 30-50 K more working for the VA (which is a true socialized medicine system) than she would working for other employers. As a new grad my pay is on par with other MN hospitals. If anything wages will go up because as part of the bargain for UHC we will also attain strong collective bargaining rights.

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I worked in the UK and learned the hard way that you should not tell the doc that you are only there temporarily. Thay made me pay for services,but the cost was probably about 25% of what it would have cost here. I was hired by a nursing agency,but worked for the NHS and would have been covered,along with my husband from the time I set foot on UK soil,if I had not volunteered that I was only planning to stay for 3 months. Good Luck!

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Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.

I support UHC for all.

I don't see where strong collective bargaining rights coming in to play

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I support UHC in the US too. I am from Canada, a new grad RN working on a medicine floor. My starting pay is determined by my union, which I think is fair for a RN starting out when compared to other jobs that require a 4 year university degree. Staff RN rate's start at $27.50 to $38.80 on our union.

UHC is more efficient in delivering health services compared to the private model. On the medicine unit I work at Toronto General, nurse's get 1:4 ratio during the day and 1:6 during nights. I get to spend more time with patients and can do everything on time. Rarely anyone on the floor gets OT. I can't imagine having 8 or more (my couz works in the US) patient's on day shift, i dont think i will survive that..

Various nursing organizations here in Canada like RNAO, ONA, CNA advocate for public health care rather than making it privatized, God for bid the two-tiered system too....

Some arguments against UHC includes RN pay issues, frequent flyers/ non-compliant pt's, long wait times.

RN pay issues: See above, I believe I already proven my point.

Frequent flyers/Non-compliant: Yes, on our floor we also get to absorb and take in homeless people and non-compliant people. But that only makes up 1 to 3 patients on a 40+ bed unit. It doesn't mean that they will eat up all our health care dollars just like most people fear. The system gets abused sometimes but if you look at it in a Utilitarian perspective, who benefits more? Society at large. Public accountabilty should be put in place in order to filter out abusers.

Long wait times: people will line up for anything that's free. Healthcare on the other hand is no exception. doing ACL or hip replacement would take months, BUT wait times can also be jumped according to acuity. When I had a rare case of AMD, the doctor told me that wait times will be approx 1 month before i can be seen by a eye specialist. My family doctor sent a referral letter to let me jump the queue and was seen by the eye MD next week then had laser done 3 weeks after. UHC promotes fairness to all, whether you are rich or poor, you get healthcare. You dont get to jump lines just because you are rich. Btw, people in US prison get better health care than their hard working citizens... no to mention those terrorist living in guantamano bay.

I think a person's financial status would also mostly decide if they are for or against UHC. For those earning lotsa $$ out there, I think that they are mostly in favor of privatized system because they can afford it. Low income earners on the other hand favour UHC.

People need to think more about society and community as a whole. If we let private HC run wild and financially ruin families, it would also affect the community as a whole. More crimes etc... I know im exaggerating, but that is one of the factors why part of the society degrades....

Why US healthcare costs more?

Waste - people waste a lot of valuable resources. insurance companies add up in eating administrative costs. Healthcare workers in general do not value limited resources. e.g. opening up foley trays just to get a lubricating jelly when he/she is unable to find on the room.... i mean.. wth...

Litigation - whenever they see a small hole in a needle they would sue healthcare workers. Something needs to be done to people who abuse the legal system and puts crunch on the healthcare system.. especially if moving to a UHC model... I dont want my taxes going to someone who sued the hospital for million bucks for something trivial.. i'd rather give the 1 million to the hospital in order to help more people... not for one person's gain...

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What do we nurses think of Universal Healthcare? would it provide better care?

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I believe universal healthcare gives people the opportunity to trash their health without reaping consequences. I believe that universal healthcare causes a decrease in the quality of care given. Why is it that people from both canada and the UK come to America for care? It may be more costly but they understand that the quality of care given to a human life is priceless. I understand that it is important to make healthcare affordable but dear God don't give into a socialist mentality; especially when it comes to our health.

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Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

Threads merged.

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I believe universal healthcare gives people the opportunity to trash their health without reaping consequences. I believe that universal healthcare causes a decrease in the quality of care given. Why is it that people from both canada and the UK come to America for care? It may be more costly but they understand that the quality of care given to a human life is priceless. I understand that it is important to make healthcare affordable but dear God don't give into a socialist mentality; especially when it comes to our health.

1) Quality costs, tell that to 1.2 million who have losted their jobs and healthcare insurance in the past few months.

2) I would guess more americans come over here to get heathcare for free than those we sent over for paid healthcare.

3) i'll let the WSJ demonstrate why the "common welfare" approach is better?

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/11/17/health-insurance-tab-creeps-toward-half-of-family-income/

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122688298424632195.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122393747851830485.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120934207044648511.html

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Specializes in ER,ICU,L+D,OR.
I believe universal healthcare gives people the opportunity to trash their health without reaping consequences. I believe that universal healthcare causes a decrease in the quality of care given. Why is it that people from both canada and the UK come to America for care? It may be more costly but they understand that the quality of care given to a human life is priceless. I understand that it is important to make healthcare affordable but dear God don't give into a socialist mentality; especially when it comes to our health.

I do not really understand your reference as to UHC giving people the opportunity to trash their health without reaping consequences. This leaves me clueless.

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