Universal Health Care and Wages

Nurses Activism

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I was just wondering about Universal Health Care and if in fact it would greatly affect nurse's salaries? Anyone from Europe or Canada who has dealt with this personally? Thanks in advance for any input!

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I work in Vancouver, Canada as an RN on a cardiac step-down unit.

I have two years of nursing experience. Bachelor of Science in Nursing.

I make $29.99. $3.50 night shift diff. $2.00 weekend shift diff.

Over time is paid at double time.

By the end of this year i'll have made between $75,000 and $80,000.

I work about two 12 hour overtime shifts a month.

My regular schedule is four 12 hour shifts on (two day shifts, two night shifts), and get five days off. Very easy to pick up OT with this type of rotating schedule.

Hope that helps.

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Specializes in Critical Care,Recovery, ED.

Wages are set by supply and demand and have nothing to do with universal health care or any other type of insurance.

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Specializes in Urgent Care.
I work in Vancouver, Canada as an RN on a cardiac step-down unit.

I have two years of nursing experience. Bachelor of Science in Nursing.

I make $29.99. $3.50 night shift diff. $2.00 weekend shift diff.

Over time is paid at double time.

By the end of this year i'll have made between $75,000 and $80,000.

I work about two 12 hour overtime shifts a month.

My regular schedule is four 12 hour shifts on (two day shifts, two night shifts), and get five days off. Very easy to pick up OT with this type of rotating schedule.

Hope that helps.

I live in Bellingham, WA Less than 50 miles from Vancouver BC, but on the south side of the border. An RN here with your degree and experience will make the same or more, and pay significantly LESS TAXES (10%-30% less than in BC) and in our area we have a much lower cost of living than in Vancouver also, therefore giving the nurse a much higher disposable income and higher standard of living. Head south another 60-90 miles (seattle metro area) and wages will increase several dollers an hour and cost of living will increase only slightly.

Of course, there is a portion (too much) of the population that has no insurance -- which does not mean "no access to health care".

As broken as our healthcare system is in the US turning it over to the Govt to provide universal helathcare will only make it worse, the Govt is barely adequate at providing the services they already provide to us.

Cases in Point:

Many nursing students in our area are Canadian citizens, most of them resident in BC, but planning on working in the states, d/t the reasons sated in Para. 1. Also many Canadian nurses have worked in the US for many years. Alot of them still live in BC, but work here D/T staffing and pay issues that can only be directly related to issues with Universal Healthcare.

Our area has many more outpatient surgery centers providing services than you would find in places of equivilant population further from the border. This is partly (mostly) d/t Candian citizens who can afford to pay out of pocket coming down to avoid extended wait times for non-emergency or elective surgeries. How long do you think the wait is in BC for an ACL repair or shoulder surgery for bursitits etc? It's free, but if you research the wait times will be much (weeks, months) longer than it is anywhere in the US.

So to the OP;Yes, it is clear that universal healthcare effects wages.

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Specializes in Urgent Care.
Wages are set by supply and demand and have nothing to do with universal health care or any other type of insurance.

Umm, I think you should do some more research. What you say is true only for a free market model.

Supply and demand cease to have their normal meaning when you are talking about a GOV'T RUN MONOPOLY of any sort. When reimbursements are set at a national level, this will have a great affect on wage, quality of healthcare, staffing ratios, etc.

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There have been recent talks in some regions about low census in the hospitals likely due to the economy and uninsured/underinsured patients. Patients are simply not seeking treatment because of the expense. New grads in many areas (including mine) are not able to get a job in hospitals systems due to low census. The more insured people there are, the more they are going to seek care and consequently more jobs are going to become available for nurses. This will lead to a high demand for nurses and they are going to have to pay accordingly. Also, taxes may theorectically be higher to pay for universal healthcare, but we won't be paying those high premiums to our very wealthy insurance company every month! So savings there!

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So the OP asks for data and gets a very colored anti Universal Healthcare response. That will get this thread moved to the political forum, and there are quite enough UVH threads there already to comment on. :D We can hash out the taxes vs healthcare costs all day long there, but nobody will ever "win" because nobody ever changes their "side" in the issue.

I think that Jaycee's posted income is pretty reasonable. Its slightly better than a starting RN would get here, if I am not mistaken. (in the southeast)

Brilliantbaby's comment makes sense too. We lose a lot of money due to having to treat uninsured people who have no way or means to pay off their hospital bills ever. Not that we should not accept them, but it still would be nice to get paid by SOMEBODY. :)

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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Wages are not set by the government in Universal Healthcare. The government pays for the healthcare but they do not run it.

Where i work RNs make close to $38/hr plus shift differentials.A lot depends on your union.

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Specializes in Urgent Care.
There have been recent talks in some regions about low census in the hospitals likely due to the economy and uninsured/underinsured patients. Patients are simply not seeking treatment because of the expense. New grads in many areas (including mine) are not able to get a job in hospitals systems due to low census. The more insured people there are, the more they are going to seek care and consequently more jobs are going to become available for nurses. This will lead to a high demand for nurses and they are going to have to pay accordingly. Also, taxes may theorectically be higher to pay for universal healthcare, but we won't be paying those high premiums to our very wealthy insurance company every month! So savings there!

So the OP asks for data and gets a very colored anti Universal Healthcare response. That will get this thread moved to the political forum, and there are quite enough UVH threads there already to comment on. We can hash out the taxes vs healthcare costs all day long there, but nobody will ever "win" because nobody ever changes their "side" in the issue.

I think that Jaycee's posted income is pretty reasonable. Its slightly better than a starting RN would get here, if I am not mistaken. (in the southeast)

Brilliantbaby's comment makes sense too. We lose a lot of money due to having to treat uninsured people who have no way or means to pay off their hospital bills ever. Not that we should not accept them, but it still would be nice to get paid by SOMEBODY.

Wages are not set by the government in Universal Healthcare. The government pays for the healthcare but they do not run it.

Where i work RNs make close to $38/hr plus shift differentials.A lot depends on your union.

I am trying to mostly address the OP's question of Universal Health care effect on nurses wages. I really think the data shows that it has a negative effect. I am not sure why loriangel believes I said the govt would set wages in a UHC system, nor why scorpio student feels my views are "colored" or political. I am really just trying to evaluate the evidence available to see what effect it has on nurses wages. Not supporting your political views does not mean I am providing a political opinion.

Back to the discussion at hand: Arguments that say Supply and Demand set wages - Why is demand so high in Canada, AEB long waits for non emergency testing and procedures, all individuals have insurance, high pt to staff ratios, Yet wages in an expensive urban center in Canada are only equivalent to those of a nearby rural / low cost area in the US? Similar findings in other countries with this system would clearly indicate that universal health care negatively impacts nursing wages. Higher demand in canada should equate to higher wages, if the supply demand hypothesis is to stand.

And the high taxes (generally near 50%) universal in countries with universal healthcare is an import issue in wage consideration.

I havent yet seen any evidence (not conjecture) presented that demonstrates any neutral or positive impact on wages with UHC systems.

I'm really not trying to put politics in this. Although you can probably guess what my views are.

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Specializes in Gerontology.

Our area has many more outpatient surgery centers providing services than

you would find in places of equivilant population further from the border. This is partly (mostly) d/t Candian citizens who can afford to pay out of pocket coming down to avoid extended wait times for non-emergency or elective surgeries. How long do you think the wait is in BC for an ACL repair or shoulder surgery for bursitits etc? It's free, but if you research the wait times will be much (weeks, months) longer than it is anywhere in the US.

And if you don't have insurance in the US and need this surgery, you won't get it done because you can't afford it.

I have a genetic, degenerative disease. I've had 8 surgeries in Canada - my only out-of-pocket expense is my TV rental. If I tried to get insurance in the US I would pay lots and lots of money - that is, if they would even insure me.

Sorry - I'd rather live in a country where I don't have to worry about losing my home if I get hit by a bus coming home from work some day.

As for wages - I make almost $40.00/hr - plus shift differential, charge pay, etc that can bring it up to almost $45.00/hr.

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Specializes in Tele, Home Health, MICU, CTICU, LTC.

Just a thought here. Hospitals in the US provide billions of dollars of free care yearly. If each and every American were to have health insurance, then the care of each person would be paid for and the free care would not be paid by the hospital. It seems to me that this would free up some money for other uses, such as nurses pay.

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