Universal Health Care... what would this mean...

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hypothetically, how would universal healthcare affect us as nurses? the demand? our salaries? ive had a taste of the whole universal healthcare thing with the movie Sicko coming out and the upcoming election... but i dont know enough to say anything... any ideas?

:cheers:

Specializes in ICU.
Unfortunately I am unable to get much more information at the moment, due the the government change in Australia. Most all of the relevent information has been archived for review and difficult access. The news articles however are very accessable, but lack great detail.

And say absolutely nothing, state no argument. They're merely tidbits.

As far as the truthfulness of the population, check the U.S. Census for California, and the Australian Census for all of their territories and you will see the difference. As far as relevence, comparing countries with vastly different populations, and cultures simply does not make sense.

If anything, deploying and maintaining UHC in the USA would be easier than Australia, due to our extremely low population density compared to yours, making for a lot of difficulties when it comes to care for towns with five people in them.

I wasn't disputing the numbers, just the relevance. You need to provide some rational reasons for discounting my argument based solely on population numbers.

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Australia, and Canada not too different, but differences. England, France, Germany, Very differnet.
You're kidding, right?
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The real problem is the Socialist Liberals who inundate us with graphs and statistics from other countries with populations and cultures vastly different than ours, decrying Socialist Medicine as the way to go.

Yep, that's the real problem. Not that getting sick & not being able to work means losing one's health insurance and possibly one's whole life savings.

If you and your Liberal friends are so in love with Europe, go ahead and move there.

Americans come in many different shapes and sizes and with variable opinions as well. Living in a free democracy means having to put up with opinions you dislike and even risking that some policies you disagree with will be voted into place. Luckily, you are also free to share your ideas and to vote. Tossing off statements like this, though doesn't help promote your view.

Become Euro-enlightened, but spare us your socialism. Socialism, Communism, and Facism all failed.

Yep, look at those poor socialist Europeans... if they had just been more capitalistic, they could have as similar quality of life to ours....

We live in the greatest nation on Earth, where each citizen has the opportunity to succeed or fail without the help of the government.

You say this and then concede that

Each adult citizen in this great country pays for the necessary social services to keep things civilized through payroll taxes and sales taxes. Businesses pay even more for these services.

The government DOES help citizens to succeed by providing those necessary social services to keep things civilized. Public education. A national mail service. Transportation infrastructure. These things make a difference to the individual. For someone in a poor neighborhood who wants to "make good" - a good public transportation system, a good public school & university system and the like will contribute to one's success. Could someone still make without those services? Sure, but not as many. How much is enough? How much is too much? How much isn't enough?

Conservatives and liberals disagree on what exactly constitutes a necessary social service versus an unnecessary luxury or crutch. But then again, conservatives and liberals, while leaning more or less in the same direction, will often disagree among themselves about where exactly to draw the line in many cases.

The Liberal Motto should be "IF IT AINT BROKE, FIX IT UNTIL IT IS"

yep, again, that's it. Liberals are out there trying to make things worse. And don't forget throwing money at problems and creating inefficient bureaucracies. And conservatives are out there trying to convince everyone that anyone who needs help is just an irresponsible slob who didn't work hard enough and doesn't deserve any assistance.

Whew! I had to get that out of my system. When it comes to discussions between people who disagree, sweeping generalizations just don't seem useful, from either side of the argument. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

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Australia, and Canada not too different, but differences. England, France, Germany, Very differnet.

Thank you very much for being a Navy Mom.

I don't think that the evidence is there to support "very different" cultures or governments.

We are more alike than different. Historically the US shares many legal and social traditions with the UK. THe UK is typically described as America's closest friend. THe US has had long political and diplomatic ties with Francegoing back literally to the founding of the US. (Arguably without French military aid the American revolution would have failed.) The US came within a couple votes in the 1870's of adopting German as the official language. These are just a few commonalities that came to mind with a couple minutes of thought.

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Here is a tidbit about the VA. THe VA does not serve a narrow subset of America. Veterans are a mirror of the American populace and may in fact mirror the future of our country as our society becomes older.

What makes this such an explosive story is that the VHA is a truly socialized medical system. The unquestioned leader in American health care is a government agency that employs 198,000 federal workers from five different unions, and nonetheless maintains short wait times and high consumer satisfaction. Eighty-three percent of VHA hospital patients say they are satisfied with their care, 69 percent report being seen within 20 minutes of scheduled appointments, and 93 percent see a specialist within 30 days.

Critics will say that the VHA is not significantly cheaper than other American health care, but that's misleading. In fact, the VHA is also proving far better than the private sector at controlling costs. As Longman explains, "Veterans enrolled in [the VHA] are, as a group, older, sicker, poorer, and more prone to mental illness, homelessness, and substance abuse than the population as a whole. Half of all VHA enrollees are over age 65. More than a third smoke. One in five veterans has diabetes, compared with one in 14 U.S. residents in general." Yet the VHA's spending per patient in 2004 was $540 less than the national average, and the average American is healthier and younger (the nation includes children; the VHA doesn't).

http://prospect.org/cs/articles?article=the_health_of_nations

The average american is both healthier and younger. Yet the VA delivers better care at lower cost to older and sicker patients. Higher quality care at lower cost. Whats not to like about the system?

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Letting the government run our healthcare system is a bad idea. Canada and

England both have "Universal Healthcare" and many of their residents come to the

United States to receive healthcare. Adding more government control to our lives

and our healthcare system will most certainley cause even more problems. Nurse

to patient ratios will get worse, nursing pay will get worse, and patient care will get

worse. There needs to be a concerted effort to educate people on how to use the

healthcare system, instead of going to the ER when you have a cold; learn to treat

it your self. I am sure a " How to properly utilize the healthcare sysyem for

DUMMIES" book could be written. Look at the VA healthcare system, or MEDICARE,

both are basically "Universal healthcare" and the care that the patients get is often

sub-standare by normal consumer standards. If you or I want lower healthcare

costs the first place to demand change will be at the state level in the form of Tort

Reform laws. I for one just want the government to leave me alone, no taxes, let

me choose my own healthcare or not, stop giving handouts to people who make bad choices, and represent the people like they're supposed to.

I could not have said it better

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Speaking as a Canadian citizen and a Canadian Nurse, our system here is not perfect by any means. There are long wait times. And yes, those who can afford to may choose to go south of the border for quicker treatments. However, having said that, when I get sick.. I don't give a second thought to how I'm going to pay for a visit to my doctor. That's why we pay taxes here! And quite frankly, the vast majority of Canadians are happy to do so. If I have to pay a few extra dollars in taxes so that I don't have to worry about the cost of an x-ray or having blood drawn, I will gladly pay! I don't know how accurate the stories are about health care in the US, but I can tell you this : the thought of getting sick and having to mortgage my house because I can't pay for an operation, or life saving therapies is frightening.

Will universal health care affect nursing? I don't know how it will affect US nurses, because universal health care is all we've known here. I can tell you that as an RN only practicing for a year, I make nearly $30/hr, have good extended benefits and dental, and a good pension. I work in a major city on a surgical floor where the ratio is 1 nurse to 4 patients on day shift and 1 nurse to 6/7 patients on nights. Not bad. Now, in no way are our hospitals hotels. Depending on how the hospital chooses to spend the money it receives from the government, you may find some that provide shampoo, shaving cream, toothpaste etc... but then on the flip side had to lay off a number of nurses in the last few years. At the hospital I work at, we don't provide those "luxuries". When patients question me about this.... I simply say that paying for and providing life saving medications, and nursing care are more important and perhaps you can have a family member bring you in your favourite hand lotion. More often than not though, I encourage them to write to the provincial government and minister of health about why they think such luxuries should be included in a health care budget. lol

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If any of you want to know how a Universal health care system would work in the USA. all you need do is look at the socialized health care systems that now exist and how they operate. I speak of the VA health care system and Medicaid.

Keep in mind that these systems provide for only a SMALL percentage of the US population. I need say no more.

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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.
I don't think that the evidence is there to support "very different" cultures or governments.

We are more alike than different. Historically the US shares many legal and social traditions with the UK. THe UK is typically described as America's closest friend. THe US has had long political and diplomatic ties with Francegoing back literally to the founding of the US. (Arguably without French military aid the American revolution would have failed.) The US came within a couple votes in the 1870's of adopting German as the official language. These are just a few commonalities that came to mind with a couple minutes of thought.

And none of these examples have anything to do with healthcare delivery or funding. We live in a nation with fundamentally different systems of government, taxation, regulation, military, commerce, economics, transportation, education, social welfare programs, family dynamics, etc. Data from European and/or Australian healthcare delivery and funding systems can not be assumed to be applicable to our nation. It is naive and shortsighted (at best) or downright deceptive (at worst) to do so. The American people rightfully demand relevant data, and won't be fooled by anything less.

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Specializes in LTC, Psych, M/S.
Speaking as a Canadian citizen and a Canadian Nurse, our system here is not perfect by any means. There are long wait times. And yes, those who can afford to may choose to go south of the border for quicker treatments. However, having said that, when I get sick.. I don't give a second thought to how I'm going to pay for a visit to my doctor. That's why we pay taxes here! And quite frankly, the vast majority of Canadians are happy to do so. If I have to pay a few extra dollars in taxes so that I don't have to worry about the cost of an x-ray or having blood drawn, I will gladly pay! I don't know how accurate the stories are about health care in the US, but I can tell you this : the thought of getting sick and having to mortgage my house because I can't pay for an operation, or life saving therapies is frightening.

Will universal health care affect nursing? I don't know how it will affect US nurses, because universal health care is all we've known here. I can tell you that as an RN only practicing for a year, I make nearly $30/hr, have good extended benefits and dental, and a good pension. I work in a major city on a surgical floor where the ratio is 1 nurse to 4 patients on day shift and 1 nurse to 6/7 patients on nights. Not bad. Now, in no way are our hospitals hotels. Depending on how the hospital chooses to spend the money it receives from the government, you may find some that provide shampoo, shaving cream, toothpaste etc... but then on the flip side had to lay off a number of nurses in the last few years. At the hospital I work at, we don't provide those "luxuries". When patients question me about this.... I simply say that paying for and providing life saving medications, and nursing care are more important and perhaps you can have a family member bring you in your favourite hand lotion. More often than not though, I encourage them to write to the provincial government and minister of health about why they think such luxuries should be included in a health care budget. lol

Awesome to hear from a canadian nurse! I have worked with several canadian (travel) nurses in the past and it's not like they have terrible things to say about their system or hospitals.....they are just taking travel assignments for the same reason U.S. nurses do. They all have seemed to me to be very competent, well educated and experienced nurses.

And you talk of people coming to the U.S. for procedures.....U.S. pts also travel abroad for health care. Some relatives of mine (uninsured small business owners who are the hardest working people I have ever met) went to Mexico to have dental work done. They said they were very happy with it and it cost probably less than half of what it would have cost them here in the U.S. Yes risky, I know.

I have also read of similar people going to india for joint replacements......done by Drs who have gone to medical school here in the u.s. hmmmm....

And is it not like we don't have to wait to get into Dr's offices here in the U.S. as well? It took me 4 wks to get a well child visit for my daughter recently.

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Specializes in Maternal - Child Health.

It is irrelevant whether this is a "socialist" policy; it's effective.

Perhaps in Australia it is irrelevant. But here in the Unites States of America, where the Constitution guarantees citizens certain freedoms, socialism is most certainly not irrelevant.

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I've never even thought of that. You would think that would make nsg salaries go up but I doubt it. Looking at VA salaries locally the nurses there work for less and the conditions are worse -- great benefits though.

In my area, the nurses at the local VA hospital make the most anywhere in the region. Only problem is, the VA system makes you roate shifts. They also have THE BEST by far staffing ratios. And, there is no such thing as a "low census day". Only one patient one the unit? If all nurses scheduled want to stay and work, they can and do.

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