Unit Problem, Advice from Nurse Mgrs plz!

TazziRN, RN · May 31, 2006

Not a manager myself, but over the years I have seen people terminated for excessive absences. Taking FMLA is fine, but in one or two big chunks, not frequent little chunks.

My suggestion: the unit should, as a group, speak with the manager and voice the concerns and feelings of preferred treatment. Keep in mind that the manager can't reveal what is being done, but at the very least you will make it known that the actions of those nurses have been noticed.

adnstudent2007 · May 31, 2006

I'm not a nurse manager, but I have been on FMLA several years ago (in a non-hospital setting). I did take FMLA on a "frequent little chunk basis" (a day here a day there) due to the health of a family member. It does seem fishy that the absences occur mainly on the weekends, but its not illegal. FMLA makes allowances for different needs and if they are on FMLA they should be protected legally. Out of privacy issues, management cannot give anyone any details on the employees health or employment/discipline issues.

adnstudent2007 · May 31, 2006

One more thing to my previous reply. It may seem unfair that they can call out whenever they wish, but you don't know really what they have to deal with. I would have much preferred to be a normal employee than to call out and deal with the other personal issues that I had. While it may feel unfair to you now, if you ever need FMLA, you will be very thankful for its existance.

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · May 31, 2006

Several nurses in our unit have "Intermittent FMLA" and yes you can take one or two day absences (or more) for chronic health conditions instead of just a long period of time. If not for this protection some of our employees with chronic asthma or such would not have a job.

My opinion may not count much as I am not a manager, supervisor or even charge nurse. I think your co-worker's absence pattern is highly suspicous; however I'm afraid they are protected as far as their absences. Your manager will have to find some other basis for letting them go.

nursemary9, BSN, RN · May 31, 2006

Hi

Not a Manager, myself, at this time. I have been in the past.

A few years ago, this was a MAJOR issue not just on our floor, but the whole Hospital.

Management proceeded to make a new policy--- if you call in on a weekend day--you must make it up on your next weekend off; Therefore--we have everyother weekend off-- if you call in on Sat. then y ou work the next Sat ( which would have been your Sat. off). Now, since the schedule is all ready made, you are an extra person & therefore, you are bound to float.

It worked--we have very few call in's on weekends.

We have had a few people who used to Family Leave in the manner you described, but it has generally been used responsibly--ie, one RN used it for when she had to take her terminally ill DH for chemo rx;s & such.

This is about all I can say.

I know some of these people are difficult to work with

Mary Ann

EricJRN, MSN, RN · May 31, 2006

Your manager will have to find some other basis for letting them go.

I worked with a girl at my last job who was strongly suspected of abusing intermittent FMLA. Right or wrong, that's how it went down - terminated for an unrelated issue.

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · May 31, 2006

Management proceeded to make a new policy--- if you call in on a weekend day--you must make it up on your next weekend off; Therefore--we have everyother weekend off-- if you call in on Sat. then y ou work the next Sat ( which would have been your Sat. off). Now, since the schedule is all ready made, you are an extra person & therefore, you are bound to float.
It worked--we have very few call in's on weekends.
Mary Ann

I don't know how it works at your hospital; every hospital has it's own policies. However; the way I understand it FMLA protects the employee from disciplinary procedures related to absences. I believe it would exempt an employee for having to "make up" shifts. Where I work we have a very strictly enforced point system. It has disciplinary measures established for certain number of attendance policy violations (absences; tardies) with more points designated for late call-ins and holidays. Employees who call in with FMLA are exempt from disciplinary points.

Jolie, BSN · May 31, 2006

I agree that this sounds like an overt abuse of FMLA.

It is perfectly acceptable to take FMLA days intermittantly, however, the hospital can impose certain limitations on how it is done. Most intermittant days are scheduled IN ADVANCE for appointments, scheduled days of rest, etc. If a day off is needed for an unanticipated sick day RELATED TO THE CONDITION FOR WHICH FMLA HAS BEEN GRANTED, the employer can insist on a doctor's note. If the employee is ill due to a condition unrelated to FMLA, then it is NOT APPROPRIATE to use FMLA time to cover that call-out.

I strongly encourage your manager to get a handle on this situation. Failure to do so will hurt the morale of the other emloyees and lead to increased abuse of sick time.

Evangeline2000 · May 31, 2006

What does this mean - "There are conflicting reports that somehow these nurses are exempt from the normal discipline process??"

burn out · May 31, 2006

When my sister had cancer my employer offered me FMLA to take her to her doctors and chemo appointments but I had t o let them know in advance so a replacement could be scheduled. When i had to take FMLA I had to have a statement from my doctor for the initial 6 weeks I was off and any illness after that under FMLA I needed a doctors excuse .

adnstudent2007 · May 31, 2006

I agree that this sounds like an overt abuse of FMLA.
It is perfectly acceptable to take FMLA days intermittantly, however, the hospital can impose certain limitations on how it is done. Most intermittant days are scheduled IN ADVANCE for appointments, scheduled days of rest, etc. If a day off is needed for an unanticipated sick day RELATED TO THE CONDITION FOR WHICH FMLA HAS BEEN GRANTED, the employer can insist on a doctor's note. If the employee is ill due to a condition unrelated to FMLA, then it is NOT APPROPRIATE to use FMLA time to cover that call-out.
I strongly encourage your manager to get a handle on this situation. Failure to do so will hurt the morale of the other emloyees and lead to increased abuse of sick time.

I don't think that this is necessarily abuse of FMLA. It MAY be. (I know someone who gets debilitating migraines--but usually only on Sunday. She works regular weekday hours and it doesn't affect her work, but if she didn't, it would look fishy that her migraines "only come on Sundays." It would be really hard to prove abuse unless you see the person going out and golfing or something when they are supposed to be out with a chronic illness.

I'm not sure if the OP is the nurse manager. If she is only a coworker, she is not entitled to any information about the absences. What the coworkers have been told is not necessarily the exact thing that is going on. Only the supervisor and HR should have any information about the nature of the FMLA and how it may be used. HIPPA protects the employee on FMLA as well. If she is the manager, then she should contact HR to make sure whatever she is doing is legal. Finding an unrelated issue to terminate them is unfair I think, unless there is PROOF that they are abusing the FMLA.