Nurses at Scripps Encinitas voted this week to keep the California Nurses Association as their union representative. The opponents had tried to launch a decertification effort to eliminate CNA but, according to the hospital's anti-union website, CNA won the vote.
So much for all of the predictions that union decertifications will be sweeping the state of California.
While the vote was close, it's not surprizing that a majority of RN's ultimately felt they'd still do better with the union, despite all the controversy with no contract, strikes, etc.
IMHO, I think the hospital made a mistake by enlisting doctors, non-nurses and anti-union nurses from other hospitals to campaign against the union. You risk offending RN's when people who don't do the job, or people who don't even work there, to try to tell you how to vote on your particular job situation. In my opinion, it probably cost the hospital the election.
Anyway ... just thought everybody would like to know the latest news since decertification has been a hot topic in this forum.
Specializes in Cardiac Critical Care, Trauma, Neuro..
I don't know why it would be a loss for patients. Before the ratios, every RN I know was juggling at least 8 or more patients per shift. Since the risk of mortality increases 7 percent with each patient assignment, CNA has reduced patient loads, and mortality risk, by at least 21 percent.
As far as nurses are concerned ... by your own account Sherwood, CNA negotiated a better pay raise at your hospital than you could get on your own. So, I don't know why that's bad for nurses either, unless the nurse works in management.
Since union RN's nationwide make, on average, $7,000 a year more than non-union RN's a hospital like Scripps, for example, could end up paying $1.7 million more a year to RN's than they pay now. Obviously, that's a loss for management but, it isn't a loss for nurses.
It is a loss and as I said we move forward. To Russell and Debbie and all the Scripps Nurses who worked so hard. I am proud to be associated with nurses who practice their profession daily from the heart, rather than weekly for a paycheck.
I'm curious. If you think the tactics the nonunion folks used to attempt to expunge the union isn't the reason for the loss, then what is the reason? Do you feel the nonunion folks lost because their stance lacked substance and really offered little more than idle promises of utopia? Was the promise land of working union free not enough; or the thought that a few more people might view them as professionals without union representation? I mean the majority voted against decertification even though dues were being raised and threatening letters were being sent out by the CNA. They voted against making positive changes in their work environment (or preventing stupid changes from occurring) without having to pay dues. Perhaps the reasoning of the majority was that returning to the days of working in the horrible conditions (which pushed them into unionization in the first place) without a union to back them was professional suicide?
Obviously, the majority won and we must respect that. I stand by the points I made. There are reasons so many nurses at Scripps became disenchanted with the union and their tactics and I'm sure they will become even more so as time goes by.
There is absolutely nothing wrong and everything right about doctors coming to the defense of nursing and wanting to add their voice in a collaborative manner. Doctors and nurses working together is a much more professional approach than nurses and non nursing labor organizers creating discord and presenting nursing in an unprofessional manner.
Two different viewpoints.........probably will never see it the same way. The important thing is that we all need to find a way to work together in spite of it all for the sake of our patients.
Obviously, the majority won and we must respect that. I stand by the points I made. There are reasons so many nurses at Scripps became disenchanted with the union and their tactics and I'm sure they will become even more so as time goes by.
There is absolutely nothing wrong and everything right about doctors coming to the defense of nursing and wanting to add their voice in a collaborative manner. Doctors and nurses working together is a much more professional approach than nurses and non nursing labor organizers creating discord and presenting nursing in an unprofessional manner.
Two different viewpoints.........probably will never see it the same way. The important thing is that we all need to find a way to work together in spite of it all for the sake of our patients.
Well said music,
I agree we'll probably never see it the same way! Despite our differences, patients rely on us and we need to be there! Not on a picket line.
I too believe we need to be collaborative with physicians as well as all other health care professionals. We are a PART of a team. My hat is off to those nurses who lead the decertification efforts, they are brave. they took a lot of flack for what they did. Russell asked an employee in the marketing department for help with the websit, and somehow that was turned into "it's run by Scripps marketing department" Very silly and untrue. These are the usual attacks, but I never get over how petty the union supporters get about this stuff. Anyway, 28 more nurses wanted the union than didn't, so that's it FOR NOW.....
I don't know why it would be a loss for patients. Before the ratios, every RN I know was juggling at least 8 or more patients per shift. Since the risk of mortality increases 7 percent with each patient assignment, CNA has reduced patient loads, and mortality risk, by at least 21 percent.
As far as nurses are concerned ... by your own account Sherwood, CNA negotiated a better pay raise at your hospital than you could get on your own. So, I don't know why that's bad for nurses either, unless the nurse works in management.
Since union RN's nationwide make, on average, $7,000 a year more than non-union RN's a hospital like Scripps, for example, could end up paying $1.7 million more a year to RN's than they pay now. Obviously, that's a loss for management but, it isn't a loss for nurses.
It's a loss for the nurses who don't want representation from CNA. 100 of them voted NO. Let's just hope that SCripps doesn't cave on the union security issue.
It is a loss and as I said we move forward. To Russell and Debbie and all the Scripps Nurses who worked so hard. I am proud to be associated with nurses who practice their profession daily from the heart, rather than weekly for a paycheck.
Sherwood, R.N.
Pardon me, Sherwoood. But when I was still working in a hospital, I too, worked with my heart. Unfortunately, I am not a volunteer. I am a licensed medical professional and expect and deserve conpensation like everyone else. Do you ask your physicians to work for less that others, so that they can "work with their heart not a paycheck"? Why are nurses the only ones who are expected to work with their hearts and not a weekly paycheck? And we are seen as mercenaries for expecting just compensation for our education, knowledge, expertise and hard work. There are enough martyr marys out there in nursing without you encouraging more of them, and making disparaging remarks against those of us who fight and support the actions of nurses who do want to better the profession.
New grads are leaving the profession in droves due to the working conditions, pay and benefits. It is completely irresponsible of you to encourage actions that diminish and discourage the work of the nurses who have made so many positive changes in the profession. No other organization or individual has done as much. Actions speak louder than words.
Specializes in Cardiac Critical Care, Trauma, Neuro..
Pardon me, Sherwoood. But when I was still working in a hospital, I too, worked with my heart. Unfortunately, I am not a volunteer. I am a licensed medical professional and expect and deserve conpensation like everyone else. Do you ask your physicians to work for less that others, so that they can "work with their heart not a paycheck"? Why are nurses the only ones who are expected to work with their hearts and not a weekly paycheck? And we are seen as mercenaries for expecting just compensation for our education, knowledge, expertise and hard work. There are enough martyr marys out there in nursing without you encouraging more of them, and making disparaging remarks against those of us who fight and support the actions of nurses who do want to better the profession.
New grads are leaving the profession in droves due to the working conditions, pay and benefits. It is completely irresponsible of you to encourage actions that diminish and discourage the work of the nurses who have made so many positive changes in the profession. No other organization or individual has done as much. Actions speak louder than words.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
There are "martyrs" on both sides of this debate. I am not one of them. I as well as many many other nurses feel that the CNA does not represent the profession of nursing well. The strikes, the angry rantings in the streets, the truly unprofessional interruptions at press conferences.
Do you believe that this kind of conduct and the pressure nurses receive to walk off the job to strike encourages people to become nurses or to stay in the profession? How does marching in the street demanding the moon help?
I strongly feel that unionism should be voluntary, no union security clause! If you want to belong fine. If you do not then fine as well. I have good friends who voluntarily support causes that I do not. We do not force each other to pay or lend our name to something we feel is wrong or misguided.
No one should ever have the threat of losing their job over their decision not to support a union or a political party. I believe in the "right to work" and hope all states offer that choice to its citizens.
New grads are leaving the profession in droves due to the working conditions, pay and benefits. It is completely irresponsible of you to encourage actions that diminish and discourage the work of the nurses who have made so many positive changes in the profession. No other organization or individual has done as much. Actions speak louder than words.
Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN
Yes, new grads are leaving..........and many of them leave due to the treament by OTHER NURSES...........not solely for the reasons you mentioned, although this does contribute.
It is up to US to welcome them, to act as positive role models, to teach them how to ask for what they want......not teach them to demand, stike, act up etc. WHY would anyone want to join the nursing profession if we look like we are fighting all the time, going on strike and being represented by others who are NOT nurses.
Let's get real here. NURSES are still eating their young and spending too much time fighting for what they want in ways that most people find unpleasant and unprofessional...............
Don't give your profession away. Love it.......cherish it..............Fight for it. Be professional and insist on professional behavior by those who speak for you.
Trust me, eating your young has nothing to do with whether you are pro or anti-union. The meanest nurse I work with is against unions in general. There are mean and nice nurses among both groups.
OT, but "strike all the time"? I haven't worked a non-union job since I was a new grad and I've never been on strike.
Trust me, eating your young has nothing to do with whether you are pro or anti-union. The meanest nurse I work with is against unions in general. There are mean and nice nurses among both groups.
OT, but "strike all the time"? I haven't worked a non-union job since I was a new grad and I've never been on strike.
I continue to find it interesting that the three main antiunion voices on these threads, tend to post antiunion threads exclusively and little else. Except for ocasional forays into threads about scrubs and shoes.
If they spent as much time and energy bettering nursing conditions, the unions might not be as popular as they are.
I continue to find it interesting that the three main antiunion voices on these threads, tend to post antiunion threads exclusively and little else. Except for ocasional forays into threads about scrubs and shoes.
If they spent as much time and energy bettering nursing conditions, the unions might not be as popular as they are.
Actually, caroladybelle, we are all doing just that................spending a lot of time and energy working to better nursing conditions in a professional manner with no other agenda. We don't write up all we are doing on this board, nor do the pro union nurses write up all they are doing. We just put responses to the negative postings..........so you can hear both sides.
There are always two sides to every story. Would you prefer to have only pro-union posting and have the rest of us quietly sit back and watch or isn't it better to have all voices join the discussion. This way we all get to have input and listen to each other. I have actually learned a lot from the pro side and have found my views changing at times because of their input. I really do listen to all nurses and I think it is healthy to have both sides join in.
As professionals we should have all the facts and respect each other's opinions.
There are always two sides to every story. Would you prefer to have only pro-union posting and have the rest of us quietly sit back and watch or isn't it better to have all voices join the discussion. This way we all get to have input and listen to each other. I have actually learned a lot from the pro side and have found my views changing at times because of their input. I really do listen to all nurses and I think it is healthy to have both sides join in.
As professionals we should have all the facts and respect each other's opinions.
Then where are the myriad opinions on all the other important issues on this BB??????
There are discussions on literally thousands of highly important professional nursing issues on this BB. Most of the other posters show up posting on many political and social issues, from whether circumcision is ethical, whether one can refuse care based on beliefs, opinions and issues with the war in Iraq, educational levels for nursing, racism in nursing.
For example, Fergus is against circumcision, Spacenurse is anti war, Sharon is antiracism and Liz is ...well all over the BB. Fab4fan is involved in pain control issues and raising issues of bias.
Yes, it is healthy to join in.....why don't y'all do so on all the other really important issues, many more important to the "professionalism" of nursing than unions.
As a nurse that does not believe in unions, I do like to have all the facts from unbiased fellow professional nurses. But when I see any "single-issue" posters, I tend to give less weight to their "facts". You see, professional nurses with such strong opinions on one issue usually have other strong beliefs on other issues. Single issue people tend to have agendas.
Then where are the myriad opinions on all the other important issues on this BB??????
There are discussions on literally thousands of highly important professional nursing issues on this BB. Most of the other posters show up posting on many political and social issues, from whether circumcision is ethical, whether one can refuse care based on beliefs, opinions and issues with the war in Iraq, educational levels for nursing, racism in nursing.
For example, Fergus is against circumcision, Spacenurse is anti war, Sharon is antiracism and Liz is ...well all over the BB. Fab4fan is involved in pain control issues and raising issues of bias.
Yes, it is healthy to join in.....why don't y'all do so on all the other really important issues, many more important to the "professionalism" of nursing than unions.
As a nurse that does not believe in unions, I do like to have all the facts from unbiased fellow professional nurses. But when I see any "single-issue" posters, I tend to give less weight to their "facts". You see, professional nurses with such strong opinions on one issue usually have other strong beliefs on other issues. Single issue people tend to have agendas.
Well said caroladybelle. I can see where you may think I am a "single issue" poster. I heard you and will take that into consideration. I am very passionate about many nursing and healthcare issues. I respect all nurses. We all work too hard to fight among ourselves.
Sherwood
223 Posts
It is a loss and as I said we move forward. To Russell and Debbie and all the Scripps Nurses who worked so hard. I am proud to be associated with nurses who practice their profession daily from the heart, rather than weekly for a paycheck.
Sherwood, R.N.