Unborn Children

[MikeyBSN]

I recently had a pt who was in an advanced state of pregnancy and was doing things that posed great harm to herself and her unborn child. The question was raised as to whether we should call DYFS (New Jersey's child protection services). I was wondering what everyone thought about this issue?

[Penny8611]

Slightly off topic, but I'm just curious about the opinions on this here: sterilization through bribery. A quick google revealed this:

http://southernledger.com/blogs/values-driven/?m=200712

This person is obviously a little biased in his stance ;-), but it's an idea that's been floated from time to time and usually gets shouted down with cries of forced eugenics. I have heard of programs where at-risk women are offered a sum of money if they volunteer for tubal ligation, but such programs are very short-lived, if they even get off the ground.

A family from my church adopted a little boy whose birth mother had such a record, the authorities wouldn't even let her see him at the hospital. He was born, stayed a couple of days in the hospital, and immediately placed in foster care. Yes, she got pregnant again a few months later. I'm as liberal as they come...I'm a pretty radical lefty, actually. But...where is the line between personal freedom and logic?

[mendu]

agree with other posters, talk to social worker or report to DCF as it involves illegal drugs and probably ETOH abuse and she is pregnant; woman would face court time and get assigned guardian during pregnancy and have to abstain from ETOH and drugs, plus do random urine tests, if not complying with court order i assume she would be taken to inpatient facility till giving birth (again after another court time) and taken off parental rights so baby would be able be adopted and have some "normal"life after. also as a nurse you protecting not only mom but unborn baby and you need to advocate, at least talk to social worker as she/he has more flexibility to proceed further with given information and to notify appropriate parties;

http://advocatesforpregnantwomen.org/file/Annual%20Report%202003.pdf

http://www.womenlawproject.org/reports/overview_pregnant_drugs.pdf

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/03/6/gr030603.html

http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/governmental_response_p1.cfm

[DutchgirlRN, ASN, RN]

I have seen on news that a pregnant woman has been taken into custody until her child was born. I would not hesitate to call CPS. If that particular state can't do anything about it, they'll let you know and your conscious will be clear.

[StarryNyte713]

Yeah, it's ridiculous that these women continue to "pop out" children, they get taken, she gets pregnant again... continue cycle. From my experience working in Social Services, this happens all the time... which is why I left the field and am not so liberal anymore. Yep, those are your tax dollars hard at work and these are the kids who end up suffering. I now completely agree that certain women who do this should be required to be on certain types of birth control (implant, IUD, etc.) or even court ordered to have a hysterectomy after another child is born.

OK, I'll stop going off on this tangent. Poor kids...

[Blee O'Myacin, BSN, RN]

Excessive illegal drug use to the point where it became life-threatening.

In NJ, the police refer these types of cases to DYFS and they take it from there. As I recall, there have been cases where women have been charged with child endangerment for doing drugs while pregnant. It wouldn't be inappropriate too call DYFS and ask, IMO.

Blee

[Music in My Heart]

We once had a person committed for the duration of her pregnancy because she was an opiate user. She gave birth and the child was taken. This was maybe her 3rd? She finally got her tubes tied. However, my daughter and son-in-law have adopted two siblings, both crack addicted @ birth. These were children number 4 and 5. Since then she's had numbers 6 and 7, also addicted and also adopted out. She's maybe 34 or so, so can continue to have children. You tax paying dollars at work! Nuff said!

While I just can't abide giving the government such power in a free society, such cases do make me at least consider the notion of forced sterilization.

God bless your daughter and her husband -- they are saints for stepping up to save those children.

[BittyBabyGrower, MSN, RN]

Where I work they can do what they want while they are pregnant, some of them are wise to the system and know EXACTLY how long they have to stop before giving birth so that they aren't positive on tox. The sad thing is, DCFS gets called, mom gets a referral, county looks it over, sends her to detox or classes, then she get the kid, or someone in her family does because there aren't enough foster homes in the system to absorb them. People get in more trouble for abusing animals than they do for abusing their kids.

[Toquay]

The pregnant mother can harm her child even causing fetal demise and nothing is done. However, if someone else harms a pregnant woman that results in the death of her unborn child aren't they charged with murder? I think that once a fetus is considered viable the mother should be charged with abuse. Just my 2 cents.

Toq

[Meriwhen, ASN, BSN, MSN, RN]

The pregnant mother can harm her child even causing fetal demise and nothing is done. However, if someone else harms a pregnant woman that results in the death of her unborn child aren't they charged with murder?

I think that may vary depending on the laws of each state.

[nurseaboveboard]

Hi again. Hot topic in more ways than one. I would like to add for the benefit of nightcrawler and others that my adopted grandchildren were first in the foster program. The oldest one, the little boy had I believe three foster situations, my daughter being the 3rd. Finally getting adopted into a good home does not confer immunity from problems. Many of these children require occupational and speech therapy, and other forms of treatment, often for years. This is not cheap and because they're considered special needs children, the state remains involved. So you see, it's not just a matter of oops there she goes again, adopt it out and lets wait for number eight. Special needs children are not always adoptable. There is also the cost to the adoptive family, emotionally, financially, as well as the adjustment for the extended family members, who may not have chosen this situation. So much to consider when the effects of one unbelievably irresponsible individual is allowed to continue their behavior, again and again and again!

[Jo Dirt]

Slightly off topic, but I'm just curious about the opinions on this here: sterilization through bribery. A quick google revealed this:

http://southernledger.com/blogs/values-driven/?m=200712

This person is obviously a little biased in his stance ;-), but it's an idea that's been floated from time to time and usually gets shouted down with cries of forced eugenics. I have heard of programs where at-risk women are offered a sum of money if they volunteer for tubal ligation, but such programs are very short-lived, if they even get off the ground.

A family from my church adopted a little boy whose birth mother had such a record, the authorities wouldn't even let her see him at the hospital. He was born, stayed a couple of days in the hospital, and immediately placed in foster care. Yes, she got pregnant again a few months later. I'm as liberal as they come...I'm a pretty radical lefty, actually. But...where is the line between personal freedom and logic?

I am a libertarian, BUT I absolutely feel like there are so many cases for forced sterilization that this society is being irresponsible by not acting on it. I have a cousin who, thank God, my aunt was sure to keep on birth control pills. She is a very large woman and a paranoid schizophrenic. She is often violent. What a cruel fate for a child who would have been born to her.

I was driving through Nashville and got lost. Turned down a side street and saw a woman sleeping in an alley who looked to be about 8 months pregnant. I'm sure this was a drug abuser, probably a prostitute. I can't explain how it feels, but if you've ever been overwhelmed by pity and disgust at the same time you would understand. It made me lose sleep for awhile. What could I have done, though?

I understand that once something becomes a law it can be hard to determine where to draw the line, but I think this should be addressed.

[Elvish, BSN, DNP, RN, NP]

In my state, mom and baby can be positive for just about anything & still be able to go home together. :angryfire