Purely hypothetical... IF Hillary Clinton gets elected and IF she pushes through her socialized medicine plan then what would happen to the payscale for U.S. nurses? Would it drop $10 an hour per nurse?
I know these are big IF's and I am not here to argue if her plan could ever work but I am just trying to plan ahead in case it DOES happen.
Also I cant seem to find anything to tell me how much nurses make in the socialized medicine countries like canada or united kingdom. Does anyone know how much these nurses make on average?
She's not getting money to pay for this, and she's definately not planning on raising taxes...
For healthcare, people will be buying insurance from insurance companies, just like now. However, people can't get turned down for coverage. An just like poeple get cheaper rates with group plans through work, and the congress gets cheaper plans as a group, the American people as a whole will get cheaper plans. She's going to force the insurance companies to be resonable. If everyone has health insurance, then people can get care- not free care, but affordable care. Causing RN's salaries to stay or raise, not lower.
It's no argument Congress gets GREAT benefits, she wants to pass those on to the people.
And as far as taxes goes- it's proven that now people who make over $250 grand a year pay a smaller percentage of their salary (about 17%) to taxes- verses people whoe make less than $250 grand a year, who pay about a third of their salary. She has stated multiple times her plans to change this.
I know it sounds like I'm just advocating for her, which I guess I am, because it concerns me when people don't get all the right information about canidates. If a candidates views and beliefs are very different from your own, of course don't vote for them. But I strongly believe Hillary will do outstanding things for healthcare. ALL NURSES SHOULD VOTE FOR HILLARY
I don't care if a nurse is a diploma holder, ASN, BSN or MSN....what makes a person a good nurse is keeping up with the constant changes in medicine, patient care, and in technology that is thrown our way constantly!
Our roles are constantly changing. Older nurses can speak to that more than I can....however, I believe as nurses we do so much more for our patients than in other countries. Our responsibilities are very varied, and we are responsible for double checking physicians orders (or lack there of). Is it like that everywhere? I don't think so. I was told by a professor from the Phillipines that their nurses don't do half of what we do prior to coming to the US....their doctors do much of it.
We have been compared to others like police officers, fireman, and teachers. I just don't see it! The only way to survive as a good nurse is with continuing education...for some that is a higher college degree...for others CE, journal clubs and extensive reading and seminars...hospital based competency and training. The point ...is our knowledge and treatment of disease is constantly changing...our knowledge and actions change daily to follow our discoveries. No other job previously mentioned requires this except perhaps....a science/math teacher?(if they get new text books to teach from)
I don't worry about losing my salary....it won't happen if Americans have access to preventative healthcare. We won't need all of those administrators who are making the really "big bucks" will not be needed, come to think of it, neither will those lobbyists or special interest groups. Pharmaceuticals might actually develop new technology instead of sitting on their behinds resting on their already discovered "miracle" drugs or hiding others that actually work better.
I say "GO HILLARY" ! GO AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL! Notice I did not say free healthcare. Prevention is everything...education...and maintenance of chronic conditions will ultimately save us money as a country. It's the chronic problems that cost the most in acute exacerbations!
This thread although waving around somewhat, started of by the statement that nurses pay would be reduced to pay for a 'different' health service.
How should it be paid for? when you think of how much profit the insurance companies make, one source of funding could simply be by cutting out the insurance companies and by the government collecting the equivalent in taxes and then paying directly to the hospital for the patients care. In effect using the profits the insurance companies would have made. This would be a step, but not the complete answer, inevitably taxes would have to rise. However the rise would be proportional to the amount of money earned, so in simplistic terms the rich would be paying towards the poor. - A thought
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
This thread although waving around somewhat, started of by the statement that nurses pay would be reduced to pay for a 'different' health service.
How should it be paid for? when you think of how much profit the insurance companies make, one source of funding could simply be by cutting out the insurance companies and by the government collecting the equivalent in taxes and then paying directly to the hospital for the patients care. In effect using the profits the insurance companies would have made. This would be a step, but not the complete answer, inevitably taxes would have to rise. However the rise would be proportional to the amount of money earned, so in simplistic terms the rich would be paying towards the poor. - A thought
additionally single payer even on an item of service basis is cheaper to adminster and cheap still if you move to single payment for a procedure rather than billing for every item opened, consumed or used...
"the Government does NOT control Nurses play in the UK ... you want a raise greater than 2.6 %
the 2.5 % cost of living rise this year is for those employed by the NHS ...
it also doesn't take account of incremental pogression for many people ( given there are 7 increments in bands 2 -4 and 9 increments in bands 5-7 and 6 increments in each of the band 8 subbands and band 9)
neither does it account for the paymeny towards professional registration fees for those in bands 5 -8A
- go and work for a private sector provider rather than a NHS Trust ... "
Ziggy the amount I make in the UK is lower than I made in the US. The Bonus and housing allowance compensates me..plus I get to see Europe. I am a nurse practioner in the US which is equivalent to 6 years at the University. The UK (NMC) does not have a nurse positon equivalent. As far as paying for nursing fees, every hospital I worked at in the US paid for education, registration fees etc.
Oh by the way, I looked into buying the house I lease, 3 tiny bedrooms no closets of course, no electrical outlets in the one bathroom of course, 2 hours north of London $650,000. Housing is outrageous.
Gosh! I would hope our pay would not decrease. I wouldn't be working as a nurse anymore I don't think. I really love nursing but I don't believe our duties would change in any way so I would hope our pay wouldn't.
(I am secretly hoping she doesn't get in office... sorry!)[/quote
Hey;, don't apologize. Not all of us like Ms. Clinton. I don't like her and will not vote for her. I don't apologize for that!
Specializes in OB, Med-Surg, Skilled Care, Family pract.
In such a vastly changing world, I sure that this point has been brought up in the past; but, I would like to point out how much we spend on Entertainment as a society. Think of how much pro-basketball, baseball, football players make. Think about how much actors and actresses make. How much we spend on games, movies, etc.
Then stop to think how much we make, i.e. how much is spent on health care (the people who take care of your loved ones).
Or maybe think about how much the teachers who spend hours a day teaching your children not only the basics of their lives; but, perhaps some morals also? What to we make? Maybe we should switch that up a little? Food for thought?
To answer your question with regards to nurse's salary in Canada, it depends on which province you work. I am a Canadian nurse from alberta(I work with Capital Health) and our salary ranges bet. Can$29 to about Can$38 per hour. Aside from this hourly pay you get a $1.25/hr. if you have you Bachelor's degree and you also get your evening/night shift and weekend differential(if you're scheduled to work). With our new contract nurses who are employed fulltime will get lump sum payments of $750.00(not sure if this the right amount) every 6 months and the part time employees lump sum paymet will depend on the hours they work. With all the differentials, if you're a senior nurse you're actually getting close to $50/hr. And if you've been working for 20 years and over then you get another 2% increase in your paycheck. With the Can$ and the U.S.$ on par, I say we're actually not doing too bad. I am not too sure about the other province as they have their own union.
:angryfire Here is my REALLY blunt 2 cents. I am a retired Army Medic/ Lab Tech and have in the past I have worked with both the VA and Dept. of Indian Affairs. After seeing the quality of heathcare our government provides, both in facilities and equipment. I fully believe salaries would drop and that worker who really gives a crap about patients would walk out. I know I will and I won't look back, because it's going to be VERY BAD!
If anyone had to worry about a drop in salary, it would be doctors IMO. Their salaries, except in certain specialties, have steadily dropped over the last 10 yrs. I know many doctors who are very unhappy with their jobs and have left because of the cost of Liability Insurance and the issues with insurance companies.
I seem to recall the Clintons trying to create a socialized medicine scenario years ago, and it never happened. Maybe, if Hillary is elected it might happen. Even if you go to nursing school and things change in healthcare - there are many other jobs that you can do with a nursing degree.
i have two cents to offer here as well...not just as a potential colleague but as a patient with lots of experience after already having had 22 surgeries, multitudes of different insurance plans and being uninsured. i am now on disability, receiving medicare, and hoping to recover some hope for my future by trying to be productive again. i am also a public health student with interest in healthcare delivery.
to begin, regarding hilary clinton, there are a couple things about her healthcare idea that bother me. first, as one poster mentioned, she wants to reduce the cost of prescription drugs. this is hard to do considering she receives some of the largest contributions of all the candidates from big pharma. secondly, on the surface her plan sounds great; however, it's to my understanding that her way of covering everyone is to mandate we all buy health insurance without addressing how we are supposed to afford it. from what i also understand they tried this in the state of massachusetts and so far it has been a failure.
next, regarding "socialized medicine", here in the us we hear about expansion of medicare for all. first, i would like to emphasize that by doing this, we are not engaging in full-fledged socialized medicine. socialized medicine involves the government employing medical providers for their services. now, they do this i believe in the va and the military, but in the private sector medicare still pays for services to private entities that are not employed by the government. secondly, as much as medicare has its issues, overall i am very satisfied with it and wouldn't go a day without it.
third, when it comes to long wait times as complained about in canada, just think...what if we had 47 million uninsured people back standing in line here in the us? it would be no different; however, i think we waste more money on healthcare here in the us by paying a thousand different middlemen (not an exact number, but feels like this). also, for many of us (me included) we already wait here in the us. medicaid is a prime example. granted it's a government program and most docs won't take it, but the money for medicaid has been getting cut from our budgets for other things. what if we took the money we are paying our middlemen insurance companies and put it back into something like medicaid? it's my belief as a patient that healthcare in this country is based solely on how much you can pay and nothing else.
i don't believe i'd be on disability today it i had access to the care i needed in the first place. and, thanks to my ever increasing medical issues and expenditures, i've had to battle with homelessness for over 3 years now because i am bankrupt so badly i may never be able to recover. (i don't stop trying to recover, however). in short, i think i may die because of healthcare, and join the other 18,000 that die each year because if lack of care.
i live this nightmare of fearing a lack of access to care and lacking the ability to pay for it everyday, and in the recent past i've been subjected to direct personal attack on me and my reputation, both verbally by a physician's office staff and in writing by person collecting for a doctor. sadly, paying for care is one thing, but a bigger problem for me is that i can't keep up with endless mail of medical bills. in the meantime, physician offices have started to treat me like a lowlife despite this. (i am single, and with my healthcare i go it alone because of lack of a strong social network of assistance--family, friends, etc).
fourth, in my educational travels, an instructor of mine said something that i've never forgotten--we don't really have a healthcare "system" per se in the us. we have a healthcare conglomeration. to have a system implies order and regulation--here in my opinion we have organized chaos.
fifth, also during my education so far i've had to watch michael moore's "sicko" and critique it. though i am not a moore fan and think that he could have done a better job with showing the healthcare systems he did show, he did a great job showing what many of us are going through with dealing with healthcare in the us. the cases he presented are like ones i have either experienced personally or know a lot about. i cried my eyes out, not just because of the cases themselves, but also as a patient i felt his movie gave me vindication--which is long overdue for the suffering that patients have to go through.
even though many of you may disagree with mr. moore, i would ask you to see sicko if you haven't already and please consider the thoughts i'm sharing here.
as a potential nurse, i also think we need a drastic change. i would like to go into a field with some hope that many of my patients won't die needlessly simply because they didn't have the money to even get basic access to care. even if there was the chance of lesser income, if i had any opportunity for greater job satisfaction as i believe can happen with a change i would gladly reconsider whether i really wanted to quit my profession. granted, there is no perfect panacea for our healthcare woes, but i would gladly help my fellow americans get the care they need, especially on the basic, preventative levels.
in the meantime, in light of all the heartache i've already seen in healthcare, i am not sure if i could go forward into this profession unless there is a change. though this may sound selfish, this is a feeling that i think may drive many dedicated folks right out of healthcare altogether, especially nursing.
thanks for listening! you are all dear to my heart. nurses work their guts out to help patients every day.
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OHRN4Kids
16 Posts
She's not getting money to pay for this, and she's definately not planning on raising taxes...
For healthcare, people will be buying insurance from insurance companies, just like now. However, people can't get turned down for coverage. An just like poeple get cheaper rates with group plans through work, and the congress gets cheaper plans as a group, the American people as a whole will get cheaper plans. She's going to force the insurance companies to be resonable. If everyone has health insurance, then people can get care- not free care, but affordable care. Causing RN's salaries to stay or raise, not lower.
It's no argument Congress gets GREAT benefits, she wants to pass those on to the people.
And as far as taxes goes- it's proven that now people who make over $250 grand a year pay a smaller percentage of their salary (about 17%) to taxes- verses people whoe make less than $250 grand a year, who pay about a third of their salary. She has stated multiple times her plans to change this.
I know it sounds like I'm just advocating for her, which I guess I am, because it concerns me when people don't get all the right information about canidates. If a candidates views and beliefs are very different from your own, of course don't vote for them. But I strongly believe Hillary will do outstanding things for healthcare. ALL NURSES SHOULD VOTE FOR HILLARY