Purely hypothetical... IF Hillary Clinton gets elected and IF she pushes through her socialized medicine plan then what would happen to the payscale for U.S. nurses? Would it drop $10 an hour per nurse?
I know these are big IF's and I am not here to argue if her plan could ever work but I am just trying to plan ahead in case it DOES happen.
Also I cant seem to find anything to tell me how much nurses make in the socialized medicine countries like canada or united kingdom. Does anyone know how much these nurses make on average?
I am an American RN and have worked in the UK for the last six years. It is always difficult to compare like for like. However on the whole I consider that I am better off in the UK with the package of pay, pension, hours worked, holidays, paid for training and sick pay/maternity pay.
It is always worth mentioning that the pay and conditions are the same throughout the UK (some slight variations between Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England) so if you want to move hospitals you know exactly where you stand.
I agree that at the moment The UK does have a surplus of nurses and new grads will have some difficulty in finding a position. However if you have the UK nursing qualification it is accepted in most countries throughout the world (except America) so the option is always open to work elsewhere.
Like most Americans I am following the elections very closely and like most people have not found anything which indicates a pay cut for nurses by any of the candidates.
I'm an American Nurse in the UK now. The problem is the government controls nurses' pay. And they only approved a 2.6% increase. The only way to make money here is by me being a foreigner getting bonuses and housing allowance.
Yes the pound is 2:1 on the dollar but prices are relative. Starbuck's coffee costs 4 pounds and some change (around $9) and gas is crazy expensive about 3.60 pounds per gallon ($7.20).
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
UK nurses make similar salaries as US but their cost of living is about at Manhattan's level. (I studied this for a recent class).
Are you sure, while this might be the case in London and the southeast ( and reflected in the agenda for change pay scales by the London allowance and /or recruitment and retention premia)
can you rent a 3 bedroom house with a garden for 525 gbp in mnhattan ? how much property would 100 k GBp or 150 K GBP get you in NYC , never mind manhattan ?
You can log onto their website, Royal College of Nursing, but I haven't gotten anyone to be a penpal yet. It should be noted that the trend for our socialized medicine friends in Europe is to become more privatized with less government control and support... while the US is considering a single payer system of some sort.
privatised providers and a purchaser / provider split odesn't change the main principals of a dingle payer and free at the point of delivery ...
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
I am an American RN and have worked in the UK for the last six years. It is always difficult to compare like for like. However on the whole I consider that I am better off in the UK with the package of pay, pension, hours worked, holidays, paid for training and sick pay/maternity pay.
It is always worth mentioning that the pay and conditions are the same throughout the UK (some slight variations between Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England) so if you want to move hospitals you know exactly where you stand.
this is a further advantage to a system like the NHS, there is one set of pay negotiation and people know where they stand... however it also requires the union system to be set up for such collective bargaining rather than Branches/ locals being the key player in union activities
I agree that at the moment The UK does have a surplus of nurses and new grads will have some difficulty in finding a position. However if you have the UK nursing qualification it is accepted in most countries throughout the world (except America) so the option is always open to work elsewhere.
thanks to some rather short sighted employment practice a few years ago of offering imported RNS permanent contracts . which even with the changes to work permit rules allow people unlimited leave to remain as long they can obtain a work permit ( if you stay with the same trust , even if you move clinica lareas, site or grade you can keep your work permit becasue they are issued for an employer not a role )
Like most Americans I am following the elections very closely and like most people have not found anything which indicates a pay cut for nurses by any of the candidates.
But I still miss America!
i suspect that much of the worry is scare mongering by the mccarthyites who still seem to fail ot understand the difference between socialism, marxism and stalinism
Lawsuites have increased the cost of every service and supply utilized to provide healthcare. We need a community based medical "grand jury" to hear potential cases. This would be comprised of physicians, nurses, and other healthcare professionals, lay persons, and legal analysts. If your case is deemed plausible, it procedes to court. If you lose you lose. However, if your case is not deemed plausible and you procede to court and lose, you pay the court costs. How many lawyers would be chasing ambulances if that hapened? A lot less.
Tort reform would enable the important cases to be heard, dissuade those that are unfounded and decrease costs across the board.
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
I'm an American Nurse in the UK now. The problem is the government controls nurses' pay. And they only approved a 2.6% increase. The only way to make money here is by me being a foreigner getting bonuses and housing allowance.
#
the Government does NOT control Nurses play in the UK ... you want a raise greater than 2.6 %
the 2.5 % cost of living rise this year is for those employed by the NHS ...
it also doesn't take account of incremental pogression for many people ( given there are 7 increments in bands 2 -4 and 9 increments in bands 5-7 and 6 increments in each of the band 8 subbands and band 9)
neither does it account for the paymeny towards professional registration fees for those in bands 5 -8A
- go and work for a private sector provider rather than a NHS Trust ...
The other thing to realize when factoring nursing pay and benefits and socialized medicine in countries like the UK and Canada is that the US runs a deficit beyond what most countries could dream of amassing. Our dollar is worth less and less every day.
The real question right now is "So where do we get the money to do this?".
The war on drugs causes prisons to fill, higher taxes to cover the additional police, forces addicts to prostitute themselves for fixes, causes illegal immigration to fuel the sales end of drug dealing, etc.
If we should take a clue from the UK and Canada on ANYTHING, it's that our spending on the War on Drugs is pointless and that we should immediately decriminalize it and leave it to the states to regulate and tax. It's done wonders for Canada in the UK. They can spend that enforcement money and police on better things than locking up pot smokers sitting safely in their houses bothering nobody.
If after spending 500 BILLION dollars to make pot illegal and any high schooler can STILL get marijuana faster and easier than he could buy a 6pack of beer, we should realize we simply cannot win the war with more force. We need to approach it financially.
Until we take our heads out of the sand and realize what's causing us to spend the most, we'll never be able to provide healthcare.
What really upsets me is the fact that right now we tell kids in school that things like Pot and Hemp are evil like terrorism.
Yet before the lobbies forced congress to change the laws we were making movies like this:
Sorry for the potential thread hijack. I just get upset at people when they pretend the healthcare and education problems are as easy to fix as Hillary.
I read stuff like this:
How America Lost the War on Drugs
After Thirty-Five Years and $500 Billion, Drugs Are as Cheap and Plentiful as Ever: An Anatomy of a Failure.
And it just bothers me. Why are other candidates so afraid to talk about this stuff until they feel enough people support it to make it ok to talk about?
It just baffles me to think how much that 500 billion could have done for educating my children or taking care of my aging mother when her social security and medicare cannot. :angryfire
The first thing most politicians say is that they need the war on drugs to help fight all the bad drug dealers.
Well how many drug dealers sell alcohol or tobacco? I'm sorry, I missed that. How many? That's right. ZERO. As soon as it's sold in Walmart, drug dealers DISAPPEAR.
If you want to stop drug dealers and illegal immigrants from killing people to protect their precious drug trade, let's decriminalize, make TON OF MONEY from the sales and sin taxes that we already make on tobacco and alcohol, and run a few ads just to make sure people know that it's not very healthy. Let the states set age limits for purchasing just like tobacco and alcohol.
Then let's use that money to talk about healthcare.
You can only add to a jenga tower for so long before it falls apart. Everytime we give, we take from somewhere else. I'd like to hear Hillary talk more about that.
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
war against drugs ... target where the damage is - disrupt dealers and supply networks ... possession (unless it's stolen legit pharma stuff and you stole it) isn't all that big a deal - hence the reason the Uk re categorised marijuana from cat B to cat C ... even then cat B possession doesn't get much more than token fines, forfeiture and a the minor blot on the landscape of a criminal record ...
cat A use has crime knock ons ( heroin users shoplifting and burgling in the main) so make treatment and testing orders part of the punishment for those crimes ...
as for alcohol and tobbacco - depends on whether there is money to be made from bootlegging it either from adjacent states or countires with different tax regimes or from legit supplies stolen in transit ...
I've seen a lot of forward thinking regarding drugs in the UK and Canada. Like I said if we borrow their healthcare model, we can't just borrow one - we need to emulate other items that will help support a bloated spending bill like UHC.
"Drugs" make folks uncomfortable. Especially since they feel "Drugs" are different from the beer they drink at night, the Tylenol they take before bed, or the cigarette they just smoked outside.
But when the US dollar dropped, the drug trade all but stopped dead in it's tracks.
When you take the profit out of dealing drugs... you no longer need to spend all that money locking up dealers. They've moved on to selling cars =P
Or to a technical college to recruit young nursing assistants who "want to make a difference and a "TON" of money!"
As a STRONG advocate of Hillary, she has a great plan for healthcare, and it most certainly does not invovle RN's salaries decreasing. If anything, they will increase, as Hillary is an advocate for nurses.
I want to clarify that she does not want nationalized healthcare like Canada and Great Britain have. That simply could never work in the US, plus too much waiting for care, and too much work for healthcare personnel.
Instead, she is focused on everyone getting affordable insurance. There are people in the US, believe it or not, who are happy with their insurance, those people will not have to change anything. She wants to extend the great benefits that Congress recieves to the American people. Thus making great coverage affordable. This gives people choices about their benefits. This will also assure that EVERYONE who wants coverage, gets converage; wonderful affordable coverage.
This also allows people to choose not to have coverage. It's not mandatory, like with most republican's plans. However, those who choose not to buy helath insurance, will NOT get a free ride through the system if they need care, they will have to pay out of pocket.
Well, after all that, now you know. Our salaries WILL NOT go down.
As a STRONG advocate of Hillary, she has a great plan for healthcare, and it most certainly does not invovle RN's salaries decreasing. If anything, they will increase, as Hillary is an advocate for nurses.
Well, after all that, now you know. Our salaries WILL NOT go down.
I beleive this to be a great plan.
PS- VOTE CLINTON!!!!!!!
But still, where is she getting this money?
The fact is that if we end up paying even HIGHER taxes and STILL suffer the terrible inflation we're suffering as a result of overprinting the dollar, nurses will STILL end up making less because they'll be taxed MORE and every dollar they earn will continue to buy LESS.
If you give me a 2% raise and increase my income tax by 5%, I still end up making less.
This election needs to focus on the money aspect here.
The cost of gasoline is going UP because our dollar is buying less of it. $3/gallon is cheap we're being told, compared to what we'll be paying in 3-4 years
When people talk about healthcare right now, it's like giving a homeless man a bad check.
Sure it makes you feel good and you get to say you give to the less fortunate and those in need.
But what good is it when the homeless man goes to cash a check that is worthless? My point here being that what good is healthcare you give to the poor and those in need, if there's no money to pay for the things they need? The point isn't to think of "MORE" right now. It's to think of "LESS" so that we'll have the money to pay for MORE down the road.
Here's something that recently got me really focusing on things like higher taxes and higher gas prices. Some of us have to drive a bit to work.. it's eating us alive =/
i'll leave candidate names out :)
Quennofswords
12 Posts
I am an American RN and have worked in the UK for the last six years. It is always difficult to compare like for like. However on the whole I consider that I am better off in the UK with the package of pay, pension, hours worked, holidays, paid for training and sick pay/maternity pay.
It is always worth mentioning that the pay and conditions are the same throughout the UK (some slight variations between Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and England) so if you want to move hospitals you know exactly where you stand.
I agree that at the moment The UK does have a surplus of nurses and new grads will have some difficulty in finding a position. However if you have the UK nursing qualification it is accepted in most countries throughout the world (except America) so the option is always open to work elsewhere.
Like most Americans I am following the elections very closely and like most people have not found anything which indicates a pay cut for nurses by any of the candidates.
But I still miss America!