Trying to Bust a Strike

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2005

I just can't seem to find anything that backs up your assertion that me and my union brothers and sisters are "bad attitude and always late".

I did not say "always" late, I said greater than average.

And if you are not one of those bad attitude people, then don't worry about it. But let me assure you that there are plenty out there. And they are more plentiful in the union environment, because they cry "union" with any disciplinary action.

I have worked in 4 union facilities. These facilities had possibly the worst reputations among travel assignments that I have known...much of it due to the workers and not the management (for once!!!). After working at two of these facilities (on in Philly and one in NYC), not one traveler could be convinced to return/or renew contracts, not for any amount of money.

I got chewed out by at one by an LPN, for assisting a patient to shower on Thanksgiving so that terminally ill woman could look good for her family. It took all of 20 minutes. The LPN complained that "Her family had money and should pay for a private duty to do that, and if we do that once, everyone will expect to shower". Another nurse would walk around, giving meds with her cell phone bead in her ear, giving meds and charting while making a personal cell phone call for over 90 minutes. Another was overriding the phone and calling long distance (and ignoring the call lights) on the unit phone to order holiday presents...he was on hold for 30 minutes. And management would do nothing because of the union.

You may like to think the best of your union buddies, but some of us have seen the worst of them. And while, these are not representative of every union nurse, they were enough "bad attitude" for me to bypass union hospitals.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2005

So if strikes are always about money, would you be trying to break those strikes for all truistic reasons?

Ahhh Hell no I do it for Money and Golf and Im honest about it

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2005

I did not say "always" late, I said greater than average.
And if you are not one of those bad attitude people, then don't worry about it. But let me assure you that there are plenty out there. And they are more plentiful in the union environment, because they cry "union" with any disciplinary action.
I have worked in 4 union facilities. These facilities had possibly the worst reputations among travel assignments that I have known...much of it due to the workers and not the management (for once!!!). After working at two of these facilities (on in Philly and one in NYC), not one traveler could be convinced to return/or renew contracts, not for any amount of money.
I got chewed out by at one by an LPN, for assisting a patient to shower on Thanksgiving so that terminally ill woman could look good for her family. It took all of 20 minutes. The LPN complained that "Her family had money and should pay for a private duty to do that, and if we do that once, everyone will expect to shower". Another nurse would walk around, giving meds with her cell phone bead in her ear, giving meds and charting while making a personal cell phone call for over 90 minutes. Another was overriding the phone and calling long distance (and ignoring the call lights) on the unit phone to order holiday presents...he was on hold for 30 minutes. And management would do nothing because of the union.
You may like to think the best of your union buddies, but some of us have seen the worst of them. And while, these are not representative of every union nurse, they were enough "bad attitude" for me to bypass union hospitals.

Union brother and sisterhood are prime examples of mass mediocrity in nursing today

stevierae · Jan 10, 2005

Tom, my apologies if I was not clear. I do not mean to say that the nurses working replacement are clueless: just that I don't know the answer to the earlier post's question. Thanks for your insights.
Jim Huffman, RN

Jim, I think Tom was addressing me. I used the word clueless-I was talking about the onslaught of strike nurses who arrived in Northern CA without knowledge or caring about why Sutter hospital systems were on strike--because those hospitals were blatantly ignoring a strict RN to patient staffing ratio that we had fought for well over 20 years to finally get mandated in January 2004--that is, AB 394.

In retaliation, the hospitals were attempting to use LVNs instead of RNs as part of the ratios (not allowed) allowing LVNs to assess (not allowed) and letting the aides and houeskeepers go, so that the RNs would have additional, non-patient care duties piled on them.

All this led to dangerous patient care, unsafe staffing, and, yes, unfair working conditions. Arnold S. is trying to overthrow the law that Gray Davis put in place. Why should strike nurses give him any leverage or assistance in undoing all our hard work? They don't have to stay around and pick up the pieces.

They were paid $45 an hour, plus time and a half after 8 hours and double time after 12--not a lot of money to CA RNs, as CA is an expensive place to live or even rent an apartment (San Francisco the most expensive in the country) but it was a fortune, apparently, to many Southern RNs who came out here and blissfully crossed picket lines---either, as I said, clueless about the reasons the RNs were striking, or simply not caring.

Now, Tom just wants to play golf, and he's willing to prostitute himself if the price is right--and he doesn't care WHO knows, and he doesn't make lame excuses about why he does it ("It's all about the patients") as some do.. :rotfl: At least he's upfront about it.

Gotta love ya, Tom. :kiss

NurseGuy_in_06 · Jan 11, 2005

Ahhh Hell no I do it for Money and Golf and Im honest about it

Why do you not support striking nurses? Why do you cross the line to work strikes?

wjf00 · Jan 11, 2005

I did not say "always" late, I said greater than average.
And if you are not one of those bad attitude people, then don't worry about it. But let me assure you that there are plenty out there. And they are more plentiful in the union environment, because they cry "union" with any disciplinary action.
I have worked in 4 union facilities. These facilities had possibly the worst reputations among travel assignments that I have known...much of it due to the workers and not the management (for once!!!). After working at two of these facilities (on in Philly and one in NYC), not one traveler could be convinced to return/or renew contracts, not for any amount of money.
I got chewed out by at one by an LPN, for assisting a patient to shower on Thanksgiving so that terminally ill woman could look good for her family. It took all of 20 minutes. The LPN complained that "Her family had money and should pay for a private duty to do that, and if we do that once, everyone will expect to shower". Another nurse would walk around, giving meds with her cell phone bead in her ear, giving meds and charting while making a personal cell phone call for over 90 minutes. Another was overriding the phone and calling long distance (and ignoring the call lights) on the unit phone to order holiday presents...he was on hold for 30 minutes. And management would do nothing because of the union.
You may like to think the best of your union buddies, but some of us have seen the worst of them. And while, these are not representative of every union nurse, they were enough "bad attitude" for me to bypass union hospitals.

I worked at a nonunion facility where the Unit manager got a huge bonus for short staffing the unit and saving money. She sat on her fat a** and got rewarded for endangering patients. I got cancelled on a night where one nurse had 4 ventilator patients in an NICU. That would NEVER happen in any union facility I have worked at. Unions hold irresponsible managers accountable. Nonunion facilities promote the wreckless managers.

stbernardclub · Jan 11, 2005

Its really sad to see so many nurses who would cross a picket line for money. As stated many times, these strikes are almost always about safe staffing. I am not in a union, but I would never consider crossing one, money is nice to have, but respect is even richer.

allnurses Guide · Jan 11, 2005

I worked at a nonunion facility where the Unit manager got a huge bonus for short staffing the unit and saving money. She sat on her fat a** and got rewarded for endangering patients. I got cancelled on a night where one nurse had 4 ventilator patients in an NICU. That would NEVER happen in any union facility I have worked at. Unions hold irresponsible managers accountable. Nonunion facilities promote the wreckless managers.

That would "NEVER happen in any union facility"??? That would never happen if nurses didn't let it happen. I would never work in such a facility. First though, I'd raise holy hell. I'm not about to sit on my a** and let someone else endanger patients. Where the heck is the backbone in those nurses who allowed themselves to work short and in a dangerous way in a NICU??? I don't need no stinking union to tell me the blatant truth that this is just plain wrong.

And saying the Tom is "prostituting" himself because he doesn't agree with you is meanspirited and wrong. Just because someone has a different take on a subject doesn't mean they are prostituting themselves. In order to do that Tom would have to be doing something he doesn't believe in and he certainly believes in what he is doing.

Nurses are individuals - just because some of us see the answers to the problems differently than those who go on strike does not mean we deserve to be treated so badly.

Scabs? Hitler? That's just wrong.

And Arnold didn't overthrow the law that Gray Davis passed; we still have the 6:1 ration . . .he is just POSTPONING the 5:1 ratio. Nothing has been overthrown yet.

Stevierae I really respect you but have to disagree with you here.

And James has a point - why the namecalling??

I would never work in a facility that would force me to join a union but I would also not cross a picket line (although that may change depending on the situation - I've never had to cross one).

steph

stevierae · Jan 11, 2005

That would "NEVER happen in any union facility"??? That would never happen if nurses didn't let it happen. I would never work in such a facility. First though, I'd raise holy hell. I'm not about to sit on my a** and let someone else endanger patients. Where the heck is the backbone in those nurses who allowed themselves to work short and in a dangerous way in a NICU??? I don't need no stinking union to tell me the blatant truth that this is just plain wrong.
And saying the Tom is "prostituting" himself because he doesn't agree with you is meanspirited and wrong. Just because someone has a different take on a subject doesn't mean they are prostituting themselves. In order to do that Tom would have to be doing something he doesn't believe in and he certainly believes in what he is doing.
Nurses are individuals - just because some of us see the answers to the problems differently than those who go on strike does not mean we deserve to be treated so badly.
Scabs? Hitler? That's just wrong.
And Arnold didn't overthrow the law that Gray Davis passed; we still have the 6:1 ration . . .he is just POSTPONING the 5:1 ratio. Nothing has been overthrown yet.
Stevierae I really respect you but have to disagree with you here.
And James has a point - why the namecalling??
I would never work in a facility that would force me to join a union but I would also not cross a picket line (although that may change depending on the situation - I've never had to cross one).
steph

I know; I said he was trying to overthrow it. 6:1 is med surg ratios--next he'll be attempting to overthrow the ICU 1:2 ratios.

The little hospital that I referenced (in CA, up near Phoenix) was blatantly ignoring safe staffing laws--LVNs doing total care in ICU on ventilated patients; only 1 RN in ICU to 4 very, very sick patients, 2 on vents, one with ARDS and GI bleeding; the other one on a vent, morbidly obese, seizing, also bleeding and possibly post introperative stroke. At the same time, that RN had to oversee telemetry patients (as well as her own ICU patients, and as well as double checking everyhting the LVNs had done.) That's just wrong--tele should be a separate unit, with a separate RN. I believe the tele ratio is supposed to be 1:4.

One of the LVNs went to "help" the RN by spiking a unit of blood--blood went flying everywhere--ceiling, floors, patient. Nurse administrator witnessed this, turned around and left--supposedly to get more "help--" in reality because she preferred to remain oblivious to the realities of not staffing according to safe RN to patient staffing ratios and ignoring patient acuities (which they did not assign there.) She never did return with "help."

ICU/ER supervisor was a young RN traveler doing first time supervisory position, who cited "Title 22" as his excuse for using LVNs to fulfill staffing ratios. It was like all the traveler supervisors had undergone some brainwashing course to simply cite "Title 22" as their rationale for everything they did--without understanding what it meant, and without being familiar with the BRN, the CA Nurse Practice Act, The LVN scope of practice, and, most importantly, AB 394.

RN supervisor traveler on med-surg addressed nearly every question directed to her with "I am not familiar with CA nursing law." Well, HELLO--don't you think you had better GET yourself familiar with it, if you are going to be in charge of this floor?

Med surg was probably more like 1:12--NOT 1:6--mixed adults and children, some very sick children... and, again, LVNs doing things they should not have been doing. No aides in the place, period. Place was staffed nearly entirely with travelers, because all the staff refused to work under such unsafe conditions, and left.

I am just teasing Tom, and he knows it. Tom is cool in my book! :) Actually, I think Tom says a LOT of things just to stir the pot and be controversial---I am secretly thinking he doesn't mean half of what he says. I HOPE he never crosses a CNA strike line where I am out on the picket line--I will have to take him out and whup him with my husband's new oversized driver!!!

"Scabs" is just the ugly name that has been used since time immemorial for people that would cross strike lines, not caring about the reason for the strike, not caring about the people on the strike line--all to make a fast buck. I did not invent the word--it's part of our modern day vocabulary. Really, it IS prostituting onesself. I promised myslef long ago, when my dayghters were very young, that I could never do such a thing, as it would set an example for them that--what?--that I'd compromise my principles if the money was right? Isn't that what prostitutes do?

My daughters are in their mid-20s now, and sometimes they tell me I am crazy not to work a strike--but they respect my principles. I don't think deep down that they really would respect ME if I really did cave and work a strike.

allnurses Guide · Jan 11, 2005

I know; I said he was trying to overthrow it. 6:1 is med surg ratios--next he'll be attempting to overthrow the ICU 1:2 ratios.
I am just teasing Tom, and he knows it. Tom is cool in my book! :) Actually, I think Tom says a LOT of things just to stir the pot and be controversial---I am secretly thinking he doesn't mean half of what he says. I HOPE he never crosses a CNA strike line where I am out on the picket line--I will have to take him out and whup him with my husband's new oversized driver!!!
"Scabs" is just the ugly name that has been used since time immemorial for people that would cross strike lines, not caring about the reason for the strike, not caring about the people on the strike line--all to make a fast buck. I did not invent the word--it's part of our modern day vocabulary. Really, it IS prostituting onesself. I promised myslef long ago, when my dayghters were very young, that I could never do such a thing, as it would set an example for them that--what?--that I'd compromise my principles if the money was right? Isn't that what prostitutes do?
My daughters are in their mid-20s now, and sometimes they tell me I am crazy not to work a strike--but they respect my principles. I don't think deep down that they really would respect ME if I really did cave and work a strike.

Whew, glad you aren't mad at me. :chuckle

I think that there are people who agree with what the people are striking about but don't agree with the way they are going about trying to change it. They themselves don't believe in striking. That doesn't make them prostitutes.

Right after I graduated there was a strike at a local hospital where many of my fellow students had gone to work. There were some who went on strike and others who did not. One especially articulate and loving one who felt that it would betray her patients if she left the bedside to strike. I think that is an honorable position.

I realize that scab is an old term. My Dad was an ironworker and still a proud union member who voted for Kerry. :)

I grew up with the union . .. I chose a different path.

My Dad still loves me. :rolleyes: :chuckle

steph

stevierae · Jan 11, 2005

Whew, glad you aren't mad at me. :chuckle
I think that there are people who agree with what the people are striking about but don't agree with the way they are going about trying to change it. They themselves don't believe in striking. That doesn't make them prostitutes.
Right after I graduated there was a strike at a local hospital where many of my fellow students had gone to work. There were some who went on strike and others who did not. One especially articulate and loving one who felt that it would betray her patients if she left the bedside to strike. I think that is an honorable position.
I realize that scab is an old term. My Dad was an ironworker and still a proud union member who voted for Kerry. :)
I grew up with the union . .. I chose a different path.
My Dad still loves me. :chuckle
steph

Love you too, steph. :kiss

Dang, the IRONWORKERS are a diehard band of brothers and sisters--a radical bunch!!! I was watching some elderly ones on TV talking about their days in Chicago building the Sears Tower. Man, they are loyal to each other! They have a very strong union, correct? Kinda like Jimmy Hoffa and the AFL-CIO back in the day....

I'll bet you and your dad have some interesting dinner conversations about strikes--my brother is a marine engineer, and their union is pretty radical--he is always cautioning me to never even THINK about crossing a strike line, lest my dead body disappear within some newly poured concrete structure supporting a bridge, never to be seen again...

allnurses Guide · Jan 11, 2005

Love you too, steph. :kiss
Dang, the IRONWORKERS are a diehard band of brothers and sisters--a radical bunch!!! I was watching some elderly ones on TV talking about their days in Chicago building the Sears Tower. Man, they are loyal to each other! They have a very strong union, correct? Kinda like Jimmy Hoffa and the AFL-CIO back in the day....
I'll bet you and your dad have some interesting dinner conversations about strikes--my brother is a marine engineer, and their union is pretty radical--he is always cautioning me to never even THINK about crossing a strike line, lest my dead body disappear within some newly pured concrete structure supporting a bridge, never to be seen again...

Oh yeah we do! And there is a great brotherhood. But he has gotten more conservative in his old age.

My brother and I are die-hard Republicans and conservatives. He has his own electronics business and I'm a nurse. We had such a great free for all conversation before the election - my brother was really getting steamed at my dad. It was fun.

My other brother (not my dad's) and my two sisters (my dad's) are liberal tree-hugging dope smoking good time rock and rollers who never graduated from high school. My brother is on disability and my two sisters are on welfare.

Now, I'm not generalizing here . .. just my own little anecdotal family. :coollook:

steph (I also love rock and roll)