Tons of student loans, pursue DNP still?

Stephalump · May 28, 2012

Honestly, alot of the advice you are getting regarding holding back and waiting until you get a certain magical amount of experience is probably from individuals who are simply jealous that you are trying to follow your dreams. You need to just try and get it done so you don't regret it later. You don't want to be one of those people who just puts up barriers to their own dreams.

You called it! I can't tell you how much I wish I had a whopping $1200/month loan payment to pay for the next 10 years. Being ruined financially is a dream of mine.

Also, I'm extremely jealous that I'll be stuck spending time with my kids while they're young instead of working and studying 26 hours a day.

Seriously, perhaps people think it's a bad idea because they legitimate think it's a bad idea?

blondy2061h, MSN, RN · May 28, 2012

thank you, but i would never leave my current position. like i said in my original post, i would continue to work full time in my current position. why do the slow route of msn, then dnp, totaling 7-8 years, when i can do the dnp route totaling 3-4 years? see, it doesn't make sense to me to do the msn route first, then the dnp route later. one of my children are already in school, the other will start in a couple of years. i don't think my employer will ever have tuition reimbursement for fnp majors because they have too many fnp's, therefore only giving tuition reimbursement for "hard to fill positions", which fnp is not "hard to fill".

doing an np program while working full time is extremely difficult. you can go to school part time for awhile, but once you hit the clinical part, at least in my program, you were expected to take 2 classes at a time and do 20 hours of clinical a week. so while i was in school i was at school for 10 hours a week, working for 40 hours, doing 20-30 hours of clinical, and then doing homework/studying outside of school hours. i can assure you the amount of homework and studying demanded is far worse than a bsn program. thankfully, i was able to do this at work. i have no kids and basically had no life while doing this. getting housework done was near impossible and i ate more fast food than i care to admit.

i had under a year of rn experience when i originally started my program, and that put me at a significant disadvantage over classmates with more experience clinically. if i could do it again, i would have waited.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · May 28, 2012

How much do you owe on student loans and especially the private loans? $10,000 or 100,000? What are the interest rates of your loans, particularly the private student loans which usually are adjustable and can go upwards of 18%?

I would get your private student loans paid back before pursuing more education and taking out more student loans. Private loans are the worst debt out there, worse than even credit card debt or gambling losses. You can declare bankruptcy for those, but not student loans and if you die and someone co-signed they would still be on the hook for the loan!

You need to be proactive and network to get a job as an FNP. They are not as easy to come by as RN jobs used to be! Once you've got the private loans paid off and an emergency fund, then start taking some classes part-time and try to pay as you go and avoid student loans as much as possible. Stick with public govt loans but be aware that graduate govt student loans interest will no longer be deferred instead will be capitalized causing the loan to grow while you're in school!

PacoUSA, BSN, RN · May 28, 2012

thank you for your response. i suppose you have a good point.... but i am already bored at my current position.... i am very ambitious and eager to learn more! i just don't want to lose my dreams just because of the student loans...... hmmmm, not sure.

i did not read the rest of the posts before i am posting this one, so perhaps someone else addressed it ... but my first instinct from what you said here is that it seems as if you're looking to the fnp as a panacea for your boredom as a staff nurse. probably the wrong reasons to pursue a graduate degree, as there is no way to guarantee things will be better for you careerwise as an advanced practice nurse. you only have 9 months experience and i think that may be too little time in the profession to start making changes like this. have you thought of changing jobs into another specialty? you mentioned fnp, so i would think working from adult to pediatrics or vice versa might be a positive change. of course i am of little authority to give advice as i am recently graduated with my bsn and have yet to start my own job (starting date shy of a month). however, i know i don't want to resume school for at least 4-5 years because i am also heavily in debt. taking this time also to make sure a graduate degree is what i really want to do, and i want to pursue it for the right reasons, as i did with my bsn.

PacoUSA, BSN, RN · May 28, 2012

Honestly, alot of the advice you are getting regarding holding back and waiting until you get a certain magical amount of experience is probably from individuals who are simply jealous that you are trying to follow your dreams. You need to just try and get it done so you don't regret it later. You don't want to be one of those people who just puts up barriers to their own dreams.

.... thanks for the laugh of the day ...

brandy1017, ASN, RN · May 28, 2012

It's wonderful you have a dream, no one's trying to kill your dream. We are trying to protect you from drowning in debt, a mortgage without a house, that a person could be trapped in for decades and if not paid off would find their social security garnished. In America we always stress having a dream and going to school to attain it, but where is the emphasis on how to finance your dream? Most don't even get basic financial planning education in school today, which is great for the bank's and private lenders who have you on the hook and great for the overpriced expensive schools that offer that carrot of a college degree. It's not that simple. You need to be educated financially to protect yourself and avoid a financial catastrophe!

Congress has been changing the rules over the decades and especially with the 2005 Bankruptcy Reform that took away consumer protections and bankruptcy options from all student loans and the private lenders jumped to provide high priced, dare I say predatory loans, adjustable to 18+, capitalize and increase while in deferment. You need to know basic financial knowledge because the rate of the loan determines how quickly a loan will double in size if in deferment. Example, if you do not make payments and interest capitalizes while loans in deferment at 3% it would take 24 years to double in size, 6% it would take 12 years, but at 12% it would take only 6 years to double and at 18% in 4 years your loan will have doubled! You can look it up, its called the Rule of 72!

If you watch Suze Orman you will find many people with student loans of $100,000, even sometimes more $200,000 and don't make enough money to pay them off, then they are in default, which disqualifies them from many jobs, find their wages garnished and tax returns taken and can even have their license to practice withhold. If your license were withheld as a penalty you could not work, not just RN's, many jobs require licenses even beauticians and massage therapists.

Personally, I think a DNP is overkill and a MSN FNP would be good enough. I do believe experience, networking and personality will trump DNP vs MSN FNP when job hunting. I don't believe you will be paid more for a DNP and FNP typically are paid half of a primary MD so keep that in mind when considering total student loan debt.

Plan to have to be willing to move to get a job and having to network and send out letters/resumes to doctors or organizations you'd like to work for. Some school programs require you to find your own preceptor which if you are outgoing you could tailor make to the best person/specialty, others just give you whoever they can find. Just some things to think about.

myelin · May 28, 2012

Looking at mountains of debt for your whole life is no fun. I am old and not at all jealous. It makes me angry when I read many articles in financial magazines etc about people taking all these loans out and feeling sorry for themselves when the time comes they have to pay them off and start the "poor me" routine. Or put off paying them off and adding interest debt to the original debt for years because they never find any money to pay off the debt. Its time to be an adult and make adult decisions. If she really wants to go to school, school will still be there later.

Comments like these completely ignore the fact that tuition has skyrocketed in this country, and is actually rising higher than healthcare costs. We are literally saddling an entire generation with seemingly insurmountable college debt. This isn't 20 or 30 (or even 10!) years ago, when college tuition was far more reasonable. I do agree that it's hard to sympathize with someone who has paid 100k+ for a degree in communications or sociology. But really, how are people supposed to advance their careers and education in this country in a reasonable way? I will be attending a public school the tuition is now 30k+/year! It was 20k/year one year ago. It jumped up that much in one year.

Arguing that people should wait to go back to school only works if that person has a job. We live in a world where most jobs require people have college degrees for entry level positions. The bachelors is the new high school diploma. Something has to change, because like I said, right now the costs of education are absurd.

Stephalump · May 28, 2012

Comments like these completely ignore the fact that tuition has skyrocketed in this country, and is actually rising higher than healthcare costs. We are literally saddling an entire generation with seemingly insurmountable college debt. This isn't 20 or 30 (or even 10!) years ago, when college tuition was far more reasonable. I do agree that it's hard to sympathize with someone who has paid 100k+ for a degree in communications or sociology. But really, how are people supposed to advance their careers and education in this country in a reasonable way? I will be attending a public school the tuition is now 30k+/year!
Arguing that people should wait to go back to school only works if that person has a job. We live in a world where most jobs require people have college degrees for entry level positions. The bachelors is the new high school diploma. Something has to change, because like I said, right now the costs of education are absurd.

I don't think anyone disagrees that most people will have to incur debt to become educated. Personally, there's nothing we can do to decrease the cost of education, but we can do all we can to work with what we have.

I took out around 13k in student loans for my first degree and decided that was enough. So I made the very tough decision to go get my ADN at a community college. I in no way wanted to when my goal was always to be an NP and it just seemed to be the longer way around, but I could find $7000 in scholarships much easier than $40,000. That gave me time to pay down my student loans and save up for my RN-BSN so I can be near debt free when I have to take out loans for my Masters. If I decide I agree to teach in my state, I'll have my grad school education completely paid for.

Ideal? No. Loan free? No. But the security of my family's finances and my children's future is far more important than charging through life like a freight train, taking on insurmountable debt like I'm a millionaire with a trust find.

On a somewhat related note, I have a friend who just graduated with his BA in Creative Writing who just informed me he's moving away to attend grad school - he's living on loans while he gets a BA in POETRY. I thought I might pass out.

tyloo · May 28, 2012

to the op:

i believe how much debt for grad school is a personal decision. i would not be comfortable going to a high priced school. therefore, i am going to university of south alabama. i will say their tuition is very reasonable and there is no hidden fees. i am just doing the msn (adult cns). i do not have the desire to go to school longer or pay for the dnp. i am in the middle of my program now for cns. i am thankful and feel so blessed for going back to school, but even more thankful that it will be done in 5 semesters ;-) i say don't rush to go to grad school. have your ducks in a line! it is not only the financial barriers but the fact that your life will be saturated in the books and computer when school is in session. you may also not be able to work once clinicals start either (i start clinical in the fall). just some food for thought. grad school is hard and you will spend a lot of time working on papers and reading. i don't have an exact number but pretty much i work 3 twelve hour shifts and the other four days are entirely dedicated to my schoolwork.

luckily for myself i had only $13,000 of student loan debt for my bsn ten years ago (paid off). i was also in the air national guard and had some gi benefits to help me out for grad school. i have work reimbursement but choose not to use it. i would rather pay school myself and not be stuck working there after school. i like my job but want my options opened after graduation.

my advice for you is just to do your research and not rush it! it is a big commitment!

i looked this information up below on the internet for you. a general rule of thumb for you to go by. i prefer easy, simple, facts to go by.................

[color=#800080]grad school math: which degrees are worth the debt

when it comes to determining how much a degree is worth, the "starting-year salary" guideline is a good rule of thumb. basically, prospective grad students should calculate what their expected salary at graduation, then borrow no more than that amount. according to the student loan network, most federal student loans follow a 10-year repayment schedule, which means that students who limit borrowing to a year of salary can expect to dedicate about 10% of their paychecks to paying off their educational debts -- a manageable percentage. by contrast, they note, students who borrow 15% or more stand a much greater likelihood of defaulting.

grad school math: which degrees are worth the debt - dailyfinance

Patti_RN · May 28, 2012

The overwhelming feedback is, get some experience, pay off your undergrad loans, spend time with your kids before they aren't kids anymore, find a different RN job if you're 'bored', and pursue your dream when the stars are aligned.

Employment opportunities go in cycles. Ten years ago, the media were predicting gloom and doom for heathcare because of their dire predictions that RNs would be in critically low supply. There were a few years when it seemed to be true, soon after new nursing schools were opening their doors, and existing nursing programs expanded their classes to many multiples of what previous enrollment was. A few years later, the 'nursing shortage' is over (if it ever really existed), and many grads are desperate to find jobs.

We're now seeing predictions that NPs and PAs will be in short supply. What is happening? New NP programs are popping up, and existing programs are enrolling more students. Do you see history repeating itself here? And, all those RN grads who are unemployed or unhappily employed? They'll be sitting next to you in class. Sounds rather like Stephalump's friend who didn't have a marketable skill with a creative writing degree and now is pursuing another in poetry! Yes, we think there is more academic rigor in nursing, but the job market is just as dismal as that of poets. Is it telling you anything that your employer isn't giving tuition assistance for NP students? (but they are for 'hard to fill positions). After the thousands and thousands of NPs and PAs are pumped into the system over the next 5 years, what will you do for a job? You may be posting on this site, lamenting 'New NP grad can't find a job'.

Education is a business. It's a big business. You and I are the consumers and we are their source of revenue. Just like a used car salesman with a beat up old Buick (or a new car salesman with a gleaming Ferrari), in order to get his commission and keep himself employed (and keep his employer solvent) your admissions contact person is going to promise you anything. The car salesman tells you how reliable car is, or how energy efficient, or how you'll be the envy of your friends...the university tells you you'll have a respected diploma, you'll have countless job offers upon graduation, or that you'll never regret investing in your education. Both will find loans for you (they don't care how you'll pay them back). Both will give you just enough incentives to sweeten the deal... free floor mats, or a slight tuition reduction. The similarities to university admissions and used car sales are endless. The people with 'dreams' of cars and diplomas are the prey for these salesmen to get you to sign on the dotted line.

You asked a very direct question to a group of people who have experience and familiarity with the subject. Virtually everyone expressed caution and suggested that you wait. And, as many observed, you don't seem to like practical advice. Had you asked, "I just inherited $250,000, my husband has a good job, and my kids will all be in school next fall; should I go to NP school?", the answers from all these people would be entirely different.

brandy1017, ASN, RN · May 28, 2012

For those just graduating high school and planning college, many are trying to compete for your business. Depending on how badly they want you, they may subsidize your tuition by scholarships and grants and for the lucky few they may find a private college cheaper than state tuition, but for the majority they are just expected to sign on the line for lots of loans.

Many young out of HS student's don't pay full sticker price for tuition, contrast that with older working adults going back to school and many colleges will expect you to pay full sticker price. So if the incentive isn't there, consider avoiding private colleges for cheaper public schools. Why should you have to pay full sticker price.

To the newbies take the college offering the best scholarship/grants. Try to negotiate with the college you want by challenging them to match the offer of another college. In some ways, college tuition is like healthcare costs, where most people don't pay the full sticker price, but only a negotiated amount, you have to be a saavy negotiator.

Nurse Maru · May 28, 2012

Most DNP programs will allow you to take up to 5 years to complete. Why not begin a program full-time (before you'll have to juggle clinical hours) and then reduce to part-time if need be later?

People value and hold dear different things differently, and you know what? 'Aint nothin' wrong with that. Some people place a great deal of value in their life on a lack of debt. Many people literally cannot be happy with too much debt because they worry themselves sick with it. Personally, I am a happier person moving forward with my educational and professional goals so that I can practice in the manner I believe I am best suited - even though that means taking on some extra debt. I may have some added financial/lifestyle burden in the end, but my life and my practice will be enriched, and that is more valuable to me than money. To each their own.

I won't say anything about your kids, because in the absence of real neglect or harm, I think telling other people how to raise their children is the nth degree of tackiness. Only you can know whether or not you are striking the proper balance in your family life.