Not trying to start a gender war here, but would like to get someone to defend the idea that there is a wage gap. This video pretty much sums up why there isn't one to me:
It is all about personal choice of the individual. If you make an apples to apples comparison of a man and a woman who make the same life choices, but there is a statistically significant difference in pay I will be all on board for correcting it. But I am a male in my mid 40's who just graduated and started working in nursing. Regardless of the reason I got into nursing so late (other prof., taking care of kids, whatever), I do not deserve, nor am I entitled to making the same $ as a female (or male) nurse who has been in the workforce for 2 decades.
While 3.2 million (91 percent) nurses are female, only 330,000 (9 percent) are male.
Men are best represented among nurse anesthetists. In 2011, 41 percent of nurse anesthetists are male.
So for the highest paid nursing job men represent more than 4x their general number. In addition to that Men make up 24% of the NPs.
Going further, men statistically take off less time from work, and work more overtime. You can chalk that up to child care if you like, but that is a decision made by the mother and father. There is no way to legislate that, nor should there be.
I do not buy the societal pressures argument either. My wife supported me when I went to nursing school... so what. That is what we decided. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone head saying what they can or can not do. Hell, I just had someone ask me last week "so what do they call a male nurse?"
I am not really convinced of the wage gap. Perhaps in the corporate world that has some truth. In the animal hospital where I am working, each staff member has annual review for their performance; their pay rate depends on how many responsibilities they can handle, their nursing skills, how their colleagues view them, their client service skill, etc. Gender does not play a role in this.
Moreover, Dennis Prague is a right wing Jewish theocrat. His words should be taken with a grain of salt.
I am not really convinced of the wage gap. Perhaps in the corporate world that has some truth. In the animal hospital where I am working, each staff member has annual review for their performance; their pay rate depends on how many responsibilities they can handle, their nursing skills, how their colleagues view them, their client service skill, etc. Gender does not play a role in this.
Moreover, Dennis Prague is a right wing Jewish theocrat. His words should be taken with a grain of salt.
I’m pretty sure that Dennis Prager agrees with you about the wage gap
Wage gap; please. It's 2020. All the hospitals in my 200 mile area are union. No one is getting paid more than they are worth. It's a female dominated industry, if you think you're not getting paid enough, you are the majority to do something about it. OP is spot on.
Wage gap; please. It's 2020. All the hospitals in my 200 mile area are union. No one is getting paid more than they are worth. It's a female dominated industry, if you think you're not getting paid enough, you are the majority to do something about it. OP is spot on.
Other than the VA nobody is union near me. We do have a pay scale based on experience, degree, and clinical ladder - I think the other hospitals around here do too. Plus merit raises - but there’s a freeze on those this year due to the financial hit from Covid-19
Back to the main topic, I’m not sure if there’s a gender wage gap in nursing; but in my opinion when you are discussing the existence of a gender wage gap throughout our economy / society and you start making the argument that the gender wage gap doesn’t exist once you control for variables A, B, C, D ... that itself is problematic. Women don’t go into STEM.... maybe there’s more to that than “girls don’t want to study math and science”. Women take breaks in their careers to have kids. Our system values children but still expects women to make a choice between kids and career that most men don’t have to make. Or they don't negotiate as well...
My wife is in IT. She makes 3 1/2x what I make as a nurse. She's very happy with what she makes; but still runs into situations where men with far less experience and expertise are making the same and guys on her level are making much more.
1: Men are less drama. I've had plenty of female nurses tell me as much. As a male charge nurse, I don't get HALF the drama even from my "problem" male staff as I do my female staff. To people who do the hiring and firing, that's worth something. I LOVE women but would prefer working with men.
2. Men are naturally more disagreeable and assertive, while women tend to be more agreeable in their proclivities. When it comes to salary negotiation and career advancement, this is where it shines. Just look at all the female responses here: They're talking about being passed over for promotions or raises while men with equal experience etc get them. Yeah, because we push for them and advocate for ourselves. Hiring and raises and advancements are not done by computers; they're done by people who can be impressed and influenced and even coerced. Men are more likely to work that to their advantage than women.
So its not a gender gap, its a personality gap. And you can change that. If you're a woman reading this, stop with the drama and cattiness and be more assertive and disagreeable.
I wrote this buzzed, so factor that into any replies.
1: Men are less drama. I've had plenty of female nurses tell me as much. As a male charge nurse, I don't get HALF the drama even from my "problem" male staff as I do my female staff. To people who do the hiring and firing, that's worth something. I LOVE women but would prefer working with men.
2. Men are naturally more disagreeable and assertive, while women tend to be more agreeable in their proclivities. When it comes to salary negotiation and career advancement, this is where it shines. Just look at all the female responses here: They're talking about being passed over for promotions or raises while men with equal experience etc get them. Yeah, because we push for them and advocate for ourselves. Hiring and raises and advancements are not done by computers; they're done by people who can be impressed and influenced and even coerced. Men are more likely to work that to their advantage than women.
So its not a gender gap, its a personality gap. And you can change that. If you're a woman reading this, stop with the drama and cattiness and be more assertive and disagreeable.
I wrote this buzzed, so factor that into any replies.
Testosterone is one helluva drug. Aggression and self-advocacy go much farther than people realize.
Specializes in Oncology, ID, Hepatology, Occy Health.
I can't speak for the US but in the two countries I've worked in (the UK and France) it would be illegal not to pay men and women the same wage for the same grade.
HOWEVER where the gender pay gap comes in is with men attaining higher grades disproportionately. Figures demonstrate that for a profession that is predominantly female, disproportionate numbers of men end up in senior positions. Some would argue that that's because of women taking time out to have children, but the two questions raised there are: why aren't there disproportionate numbers of childless females in senior positions? and why aren't men encouraged to share child care with more emphasis on paternity leave and benefits rather than society expecting that it will almost always be the woman who sacrifices her career goals to bring up the kids?
litepath2
69 Posts
I swear, some of you write essays. Go get a PhD. LOL
Simple. I Always broke the rule about not disclosing how much I made.
My very first job I basically announced it out loud to all my cohorts.
I can tell you some of them were pissed at what I wa$ hired at. The truth was all they really wanted.
I didn't ***, I thought they all deserved to know.