I work at a union hospital, I feel that I am paid a fair wage and am happy with my insurance plan and benefits. While I am traditionaly not a pro union person, I do see the need for unions in some situations. My primary gripe with unions is that, in my experience, they promote political issues that I disagree with. One example is the push for an increase in the minimum wage. I don't want to get into a debate about if the minimum wage should or should not be increased, I just want to see if any of you agree or disagree with the opinion I'm about to express.
For the ease of explaining what I'm thinking I'm going to just use arbitrary numbers here. Lets say minimum wage is $5.00/hr and RN pay is $20.00/hr.
The various factors in the economy have determined that an RN makes $20/hr, or that the value of the RN is worth $15 more than than that of an unskilled or minimum wage worker.
I'm thinking that if my union is pushing for the minimum wage to increase to (for example only) $14/hr, then the union should be pushing just as hard for the RN wage to also increase by 50%. If the union does not push for an equal pay increase for the RN's it represents, then isn't it diminishing the value of the RN's education/skills/knowledge. What I'm saying is it seems that to close the gap between an RN's pay and minimum wage, we are effectively earning less or our jobs have been devalued. I'm wondering if this makes sense and if anyone agrees or disagrees and why.
Unlike past politial threads I've commented in, I promise to keep civil. I'm only interested in discussion and getting some of your input.
Well, yes I walked right into that one. I am familiar with that data and I don't dispute the cost of our healthcare. I'm just skeptical of how accurate the data, for example, on life expectancy and preventable deaths is when you look at the differences in the populations and lifestyles of the compared countries.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
Well, yes I walked right into that one. I am familiar with that data and I don't dispute the cost of our healthcare. I'm just skeptical of how accurate the data, for example, on life expectancy and preventable deaths is when you look at the differences in the populations and lifestyles of the compared countries.
Why the skeptism? Do you feel that the WHO has a hidden anti-American agenda as it compares data from the UK, France, Germany, Canada, Argentina, China, a well as all of the small poor and "3rd world" countries? Where do your specific concerns lie?
Obesity is more than a lifestyle choice, it is a growing problem related (at least in part) to the nutritional quality of food which is affordable and accessible to poor people. Couple that with our love affair with sugar, sugary and carbonated beverages, fast food, supersized portions, and the television as recreation and a problem begins to emerge. When you throw in the notion that nearly 70% of Americans regularly take a medication (antidepressants are most common I believe) which promote weight gain and we can begin to see that this is not a simple issue with simple remedies.
I believe that an intact, proactive, patient (not dollar) centered health care system can help people to understand the health consequences of some "choices", to discover how to make better choices, and proactively treat their health issues when they are unhealthy.
Well, yes I walked right into that one. I am familiar with that data and I don't dispute the cost of our healthcare. I'm just skeptical of how accurate the data, for example, on life expectancy and preventable deaths is when you look at the differences in the populations and lifestyles of the compared countries.
Would not the population differences and lifestyles be part of public health's domain, and therefore be issues that should be reflected in these statistics? I don't think those variables should be considered confounding.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
What do you mean by "better outcomes", can you define these outcomes and compare them apples to apples with the same stats for U.S. healthcare? I always hear how the countries with socialized type healthcare have "better outcomes" but I've never seen an unbiased comparison.
Another thing to keep in mind is that they are not all the same. You can't really lump all of the so-called socilized health systems together.
Anyone ever notice that whenever conservatives want to talk bad about single payer healthc are they ONLY choose the worst examples, like the UK and Canada to talk about about?
It's like claiming nobody can make a good car and using the Yugo as an example to prove it.
I think it's deplorable that people in our country work 40+ hours a week and still either have to rely on assistance, or make the choice between heat or food each month. I was fortunate enough to be able to go to nursing school, I busted my butt to make it through, and today I am happy to say I am self sufficient. Granted, I have struggled (and still struggle on occasion) but I eat well, I have a dependable car to drive, I don't live in public housing, and I don't require government assistance to buy food. And I am not saying there is anything wrong with those things, only that ANYONE working 40+ hours per week should be able to say that same things about themselves as I can. I'm not just talking fast food workers, retail or uneducated positions, either. I'm talking people with masters degrees I've worked with that make $8.00 an hour or LESS, simply because they couldn't find anything in their field. The college educated people working at Walmart for the same reasons. A job is a job, and times are tough. As a nurse, do I think I am worth more an hour? Absolutely (although I am happy with what I have now). But I'm also not trying to support my family on $7.25 an hour, either.
Please don't assume that everyone who works at a fast-food franchise, or works as a waitress, etc., is uneducated and lacking skills. Many of those workers do, in fact, have degrees and skills but have lost their jobs for some reason. Maybe their job was sent overseas, or they were laid off and never recovered. My family member has a master's degree, but works as a hostess in a restaurant out of necessity. Many people lost their jobs due to their company folding, and haven't been able to secure employment equal to their education, skills, and experience because of their age. Another family member has a degree in chemical engineering, plus an MBA, plus years of experience, but can't get another engineering job because of his age. Why hire someone who is a few years short of retirement? I just wanted to point out that every minimum wage worker isn't uneducated or hasn't worked hard in their career in the past.
Ok I admit it, my skepticism regarding the data that shows our healthcare system is worse than other countries was unfounded. I'm not sure where I was going with my questioning of that information.
Ok I admit it, my skepticism regarding the data that shows our healthcare system is worse than other countries was unfounded. I'm not sure where I was going with my questioning of that information.
The scientist brain of nurses is trained to use skepticism as our "autopilot" mode. ? It's healthy to question, and even healthier to question open-mindedly.
The scientist brain of nurses is trained to use skepticism as our "autopilot" mode. It's healthy to question, and even healthier to question open-mindedly.
The "open-mindedly" part is a nice reminder, thanks.
"I'm not aware of any, nursing positions anyway, in which one can negotiate their own wage. "
- see this is a good example of settling for status quo... in my 8 years as an RN, I've negotiated all but one pay- and I was just so happy to be getting out of where I was that I'd have taken almost anything at that point much less a lateral move in pay! Huge example of how men and women see their job differently, I think. Gotta get what you want up front because lawd knows you're not going to get much of a raise once you are in any place. Working with mostly men before choosing nursing as a profession, I saw how many of them knew their worth before showing up for an interview and then negotiating from there. Why is it so many of us just take the first offer?
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
I actively negotiated the salary/compensation package for my last 3 positions as an RN. These were not direct care/bedside positions as a primary responsibility, still, they were nursing positions and the compensation was negotiated.
Specializes in Occupational Health/Legal Nurse Consulting.
I work at a union hospital, I feel that I am paid a fair wage and am happy with my insurance plan and benefits. While I am traditionaly not a pro union person, I do see the need for unions in some situations. My primary gripe with unions is that, in my experience, they promote political issues that I disagree with. One example is the push for an increase in the minimum wage. I don't want to get into a debate about if the minimum wage should or should not be increased, I just want to see if any of you agree or disagree with the opinion I'm about to express.
For the ease of explaining what I'm thinking I'm going to just use arbitrary numbers here. Lets say minimum wage is $5.00/hr and RN pay is $20.00/hr.
The various factors in the economy have determined that an RN makes $20/hr, or that the value of the RN is worth $15 more than than that of an unskilled or minimum wage worker.
I'm thinking that if my union is pushing for the minimum wage to increase to (for example only) $14/hr, then the union should be pushing just as hard for the RN wage to also increase by 50%. If the union does not push for an equal pay increase for the RN's it represents, then isn't it diminishing the value of the RN's education/skills/knowledge. What I'm saying is it seems that to close the gap between an RN's pay and minimum wage, we are effectively earning less or our jobs have been devalued. I'm wondering if this makes sense and if anyone agrees or disagrees and why.
Unlike past politial threads I've commented in, I promise to keep civil. I'm only interested in discussion and getting some of your input.
Thanks.
I absolutely agree with this. Paying someone 14/hr to flip burgers completely devalues a 26/hr nursing career. While it may eventually drive wages higher altogether, it takes a lot of drive away from joe schmoe to go to college and make something of himself. If I can make 14/hr with virtually zero responsibility, and know that if I under perform that I can get the same wage very easily elsewhere, what motivation do I have to A) better myself or B) work hard for advancement?
Minimum wage should not jump higher than 10-15% in any 5 year period. The growth should adjust with inflation, but slow sustainable growth is key.
shermrn
147 Posts
Well, yes I walked right into that one. I am familiar with that data and I don't dispute the cost of our healthcare. I'm just skeptical of how accurate the data, for example, on life expectancy and preventable deaths is when you look at the differences in the populations and lifestyles of the compared countries.