The future of Obamacare

elkpark · Aug 12, 2009

Your mom can thank the GOP for her Rx med problems -- the Medicare Part D program was conceived and executed by the Republicans in Congress and the White House, and is nothing but a big give-away to the insurance and pharmceutical companies.

Yes, plenty of us demonstrated vigorously against the Shrub administration and their illegal, immoral, unnecessary war, which, so far, has been responsible for the death of nearly 5,000 Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and Afghans, and all the lying and law-breaking that went on during those eight horrible years. And the Republicans called us every awful name in the book -- starting with "un-American" and "traitor" and going downhill from there. It's the hypocrisy that gets me -- how come it's un-American and unacceptable when the left does it, but it's simple, patriotic exercise of our right to free speech when the right does it?? Ya can't have it both ways ...

BTW, who says healthcare systems in Canada and Europe "aren't working"? Every system has its faults, none is perfect, but they spend a heck of a lot less money than we do and have better outcomes. I would be v. happy to "settle" for that. :)

shuuu1968 · Aug 12, 2009

As I stated before I am neither a republican or a democrat, so I am not here to get into any "political warfare." I was simply stating that you can look at both sides of the argument and find ugliness on each. Yes, the war sucks, too many people have died. Over 3000 people died on 9/11 too, innocent people going to work for the day. Did we do the right thing as far as the war goes? Maybe yes and maybe no. We as the general public don't even have a small clue as to what our government knows about all these terrorist regimes. And unfortunately...war causes death. Wars have been waged forever, and we as a country have been at war at other times fighting for the freedoms we have(I do however believe we should have never been in Vietnam, but that's a whole different story.) It is ugly, but it is what is. We are there now, so we kind of have to finish what we started. And I don't care who made my mom have her donut hole, either way it just plain sucks, and in the long run the government dictates it. Kudos to the Dems if they help her and millions of others with the donut hole disaster. AS I was trying to convey in my post, we can play the blame game all year long, both sides will use propaganda to each sides advantage. If the members of congress and this administration fix healthcare in this country, then great. But when you are talking about the amount of money it will take, and the ungodly deficit we already have, we all should be very concerneed. Lay it out on the table...the plan and all the details..that's all people want. The truth. And the people that just want "their side" to win, then they are just plain selfish. Do you really trust the democrats? Hell, I don't trust any of them, right or left. Most of them are just lining their pockets with our hard earned money while we bust a nut for a piece of the American dream. Remember...they are supposed to represent us, they work for us, not the other way around.Instead of them being a voice for the people, they are just a voice for the richest lobbyists they can find to fuel their popularity contest they call government. I can tell by your tone that you are a democrat, and I respect that. You don't have to convince me of anything, I am listening and reading and staying informed...which why I call myself neither.

UKRNinUSA, RN · Aug 12, 2009

shuuu1968 Remember Cindy Sheehan? She was anything but calm, and went over the line many times in her war-protesting rants.

I think that her anger was completely understandable considering that her son died in what she considered to be an unneccessary, illegal war. Anger is a well known stage of the grieving process. She just got to grieve on TV.

"I just feel we need more information before rushing into some "plan" "

Yes we do -information, not misinformation. Setting a timeline for a project is always a good idea -then things actually get done in a timely manner.

"The AARP issued a statement just today because Obama yesterday stated that the AARP is behind the new healthcare plan, but guess what? They are not."

"(AARP)Supports the (house) bill because it would provide coverage for people who cannot afford it, and would end coverage denial based on pre-existing conditions. Also, the bill would help Medicare patients who do not qualify for the prescription drug benefit.

(AARP) Supports a bill passed by the Senate HELP committee because it would end discriminatory practices and because it would limit premiums and out-of-pocket expenses. However, AARP is concerned that the bill would not put some generic drugs on the market fast enough."

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/27/sorting-out-players-health-care-debate/

"Most of the "crazy" people you see at these meetings are probably AARP members, the senior population."

Or are they fans of Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Fox News et al -because they seem to replicate their talking points verbatim.

"My mom is now in the "donut hole" with her prescriptions. She had breast cancer and has to take estrogen blocking medication for 3 more years. Guess what? She now has to pay $330 a month for this one medication now until the new year because she has maxed out her medicare drug coverage 2009."

Big Pharma practically wrote the bill - I remember being horrified by the process as I watched it on C-span. And guess who is reaping the benefits of the program -Big Pharma. Why shouldn't we able to import drugs from other countries at a lower cost? You guessed it -Big Pharma

Government healthcare is not working in Canada or Europe, what makes the USA any different?

I see no evidence of the general populus of Canada/ Europe wanting to give up their health care benefits and adopt US style healthcare. They would probably riot in the streets if it were suggested. Sure it has its problems but rescission of coverage/medical bankruptcies is not one of them -and besides they have much better outcomes than we do, while spending much less per capita. Sure people may have to wait for non-emergent care but we are talking about healthcare (with finite resources) not fast food.

Do you want an "end of life" counselor (a governmet beaurocrat no less) knocking on your door someday to take notes on what choices you will have when you are near death?

No that's why its not in the bill -a provision for a benefit (ie reimbursement to your MD) to cover counseling to prepare an advance directive is. Take a walk around your local sub-acute care facility one day and you will see that you might actually benefit from having your wishes recorded while you are still able to make them known. Our admission personnel at the hospital I work at ask questions about having an advance directive prepared everyday. No-one accuses them of being on a "death panel".

Our government has overspent our money beyond compare so far

You can blame the Iraq war, tax cuts to the rich and a corpocracy (not a democracy) for that

do you trust them?

Therein lies the problem -perhaps campaign finance reform and the closure of K Street might help a little with that -at least then we would be sure that our politicians were representing us and not Big Businesses that fed their campaigns.

shuuu1968 · Aug 12, 2009

Good points UKRN...and I do believe you agree that the government cannot be trusted, as implied by your word "corpocracy." Therein lies the problem. Do I care that some people are influenced by Fox news media? No. Many people are just as influenced by CNN and MSNBC. All have their angles, some good, some bad just like any media outlet. That is the beauty of this country...you have the freedom to watch and listen to whoever you want. I think the healthcare sytem in this country is a slippery slope down if something doesn't give. I really hope that it can be changed for the better. It just seems that government has kind of a lousy track record for at least the last 30 years or more. We did not get into this overnight, and we can't fix it overnight, that's why I say "what's the rush?" I certainly do not think Canada is dying to have our healthcare system, but not everyone is happy about it there. Like I said, my friend grew up in Toronto, and her entire family is still there. The uncle with the hernia is just one example of things she has told me about. It is not horrific, but by all means not perfect. People still come here all the time for medical care they either cannot recieve there, or at least cannot receive there in a timely manner, that is a fact. As far as Cindy sheehan, I totally empathize with her pain and loss, I never said that I did not agree with her. I was just using that as a comparison that both the left and the right have people protesting the administration. I also am aware that AARP does in fact support parts of the proposed medical bill, however they did not appreciate the "endorsement" from Obama himself, because there are in fact issues that concern them as well. Obama then stated he had "miss-spoke." I don't know... It seems any time you turn on the tv or open a newspaper, it is "he said, she said..." Yuck...I am just so sick of it. Like I said...it is a popularity contest, not a democracy. It is no wonder other countries can't stand us...sometimes we behave worse than spoiled children! I truly believe that tort reform is a huge part of this issue that should be addressed, but it is not even talked about...why not? I just don't get that. And by all means...shame on big pharma...they are almost worse than the insurance companies...almost. As Americans we have the right to vote in our elected officials. I think many of us have gotten complacent and kind of let the chips fall as they may. Hopefully this will awaken all of us as a nation to come together regardless of race, religion, or political beliefs to make this an even better nation. God Bless America! One more thing...I am all for prepared advanced directives...I tell my family all the time that I am having "DNR" tattoed on my chest. I get that, but I just don't want government involved in my or my families decisions...remember, I don't trust them.

UKRNinUSA, RN · Aug 13, 2009

I think many of us have gotten complacent and kind of let the chips fall as they may. Hopefully this will awaken all of us as a nation to come together regardless of race, religion, or political beliefs to make this an even better nation..

Well said Shuuu1968!

shuuu1968 · Aug 13, 2009

UKRN...thanks for the link to the politifact website...it is really great! :)

UKRNinUSA, RN · Aug 13, 2009

UKRN...thanks for the link to the politifact website...it is really great! :)

my pleasure

ozoneranger · Aug 16, 2009

BTW, who says healthcare systems in Canada and Europe "aren't working"? Every system has its faults, none is perfect, but they spend a heck of a lot less money than we do and have better outcomes. I would be v. happy to "settle" for that. :)

Misinformed critics commonly charge that the infant mortality rate in America is higher than in numerous other nations. A closer inspection of the facts, however, reveals that this is only because the definition of "live births" in other nations differs markedly from the definition in the U.S.--thereby making the comparisons utterly invalid.

In Switzerland, for instance, a newborn infant must be at least 30 centimeters long in order to be classified as "living." In France and Belgium, babies born prior to 26 weeks gestation are automatically registered as "dead"--even if they go on to survive for several hours, days, or even weeks before ultimately dying. And when they do eventually die, they do not inflate infant-mortality rates because they were never technically considered "alive."

In the U.S., by contrast, a "live birth" is any infant that "breathes or shows any other evidence of life such as beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles"--regardless of the infant's size or prematurity. If such high-risk American infants ultimately die, they do inflate our country's infant-mortality statistics.

It's apples and oranges, get it?

elkpark · Aug 16, 2009

Misinformed critics commonly charge that the infant mortality rate in America is higher than in numerous other nations. A closer inspection of the facts, however, reveals that this is only because the definition of “live births” in other nations differs markedly from the definition in the U.S.—thereby making the comparisons utterly invalid.
In Switzerland, for instance, a newborn infant must be at least 30 centimeters long in order to be classified as “living.” In France and Belgium, babies born prior to 26 weeks gestation are automatically registered as “dead”—even if they go on to survive for several hours, days, or even weeks before ultimately dying. And when they do eventually die, they do not inflate infant-mortality rates because they were never technically considered “alive.”
In the U.S., by contrast, a “live birth” is any infant that “breathes or shows any other evidence of life such as beating of the heart, pulsation of the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles”—regardless of the infant’s size or prematurity. If such high-risk American infants ultimately die, they do inflate our country’s infant-mortality statistics.
It’s apples and oranges, get it?

I do "get it." There are many measures by which the US system performs more poorly, and the US population is worse off, health-wise, than the Western European democracies (and even some third world countries!) besides infant mortality rates.

shuuu1968 · Aug 17, 2009

The government run healthcare option will not be getting passed. Check out today's news feed on any major news site. Back to the drawing boards.....

shuuu1968 · Aug 17, 2009

I do "get it." There are many measures by which the US system performs more poorly, and the US population is worse off, health-wise, than the Western European democracies (and even some third world countries!) besides infant mortality rates.

Can you give some information? Cite some facts.....

florianslove · Aug 17, 2009

What I don't get is the venom at these "town hall meetings", instead of discussing health care most people are screaming at the top of their lungs about socialism and how President Obama is not an American citizen. What happened to getting the facts, not just going to one source, Fox is a prime example as the most biased, however MSNBC (which is not nearly as bad) also presents their own bias. :banghead:

Richard Nixon was the President who helped push through HMO's, read about it, it wasn't to insure more people. It was strictly a for profit venture for the insurance companies. Big Pharma is also against health care reform, do you wonder why? Look at Medicare Part D and see how well it works for the average citizen.

My husband works for the post office, we are fortunate enough to have good health care, but that doesn't mean I don't know what it's like to go years without it, just hoping nothing bad happened. President Obama's problem is his unrelenting desire for bipartisanship. I don't really care if health care reform gets passed without one republican vote. There is a reason the american people voted the way they did. To quote President Bush "It's time to spend my political capital"

It saddens me that people who are screaming about keeping the government out of their health care are in many cases seniors who enjoy the benefits of medicare. Also, I don't want much, just that every American gets the same health care as our President, the judiciary branch, the legislative branch and myself have.

Nurses discussing this is a good thing, since many are on the front lines of what happens when someone has no insurance and have to go to the emergency room when visits to their PCP would have solved their problems.

Thanks for listening,

Roxann