At first I wasn't going to write this post since I believe that a film that appears to be (at least in part) based on thoroughly discredited, fear-mongering nonsense should get as little attention as possible.
Then after browsing several anti-vaccine and conspiracist websites I found as I suspected, that this has already exploded and whatever I write here won't make matters any worse.
The film 'Vaxxed' is directed by Mr Andrew Wakefield, a former physician who lost his medical license after research that he had authored, was found fraudulent (containing as I understand it, both methodological and ethical flaws).
Just watching the trailer for this film elevated my BP into dangerous territory. How is it that this man keeps promoting the same debunked data to this day? Hasn't it caused enough harm already?
It seems that anti-vaccine proponents span the entire spectrum from sadly misinformed to clearly unhinged. However, no matter what their individual motivation happens to be, they are in my opinion dangerous. We have fought a hard battle against diseases that today are vaccine-preventable. Millions of children have died in the past and some still do, to this day. We don't see much of it in first-world countries due to the success of vaccines. Anti-vaccine proponents seem to believe that the "olden days" were better. I think it's deeply worrisome.
In my escapades around the internet, I've found all sorts of scary blogs, clips and opinions relating to childhood vaccines.
This YouTube clip rather amusingly (in a sad way) has 90 likes and zero (!) dislikes (probably because no rational person would even click on it in the first place). (I'm not sure what this says about me)
Anyway this women thinks that nagalese (an enzyme) is added on purpose to vaccines in order to induce autism, cancer and type 2 diabetes in vaccine recipients. And the doctors who discovered this were subsequently murdered to cover this up. This vaccine tampering seems to be a part of some nefarious population control plot.
(It seems that alpha-N-acetylgalactoseaminidase (referred to as nagalese in the YouTube clip) can deglycosylate vitamin D binding protein (DBP) and DBP plays a role in the immune cascade response. So it seems that alpha-N-acetylgalactosaminidase can interfere with the immune response. While some cancer cells can release alpha-N-acetylgalactosaminidase, I've found no proof that injecting them into humans induces cancers, never mind autism and DMII. I will however admit that I didn't spend an inordinate amount of time researching her theory).
I admit that this last video is a bit extreme. But this woman and other "anti-vaxxers" have one thing on common. They are willing to accept something as true, even when there is no supporting evidence available.
Serious questions:
* Why are some people so vulnerable/susceptible to flawed logic and poor research?
* What can we as nurses/healthcare professionals do to ensure that our patients base their decisions on sound evidence-based facts or at least have the opportunity to do so? Or should we just reconcile ourselves with the fact that a portion of the population will base their decisions on questionable or outright false information, misconceptions and fear?
If vaccines are not 100% effective, what is the use of getting them? 'Cause then you have to get a booster, then another booster when they run out. I just don't get the logic: You shouldn't not vaccinate your kids, because they might get sick or someone else sick, but if you vaccinate your kids, it is not always effective so they still may get sick or get someone else sick?!?!
Okay, I admit that I only read 2 pages out of the 12 or 13 on here, and I am not replying to any of them, I just wanted to give my view on the people I know who are against vaccinations.
I know a good number of people who are against vaccinations, some absolutely, and others unless absolutely necessary. Most of them do not think that anybody is out to kill their children, they are simply scared of what they don't know, or are inherently afraid of putting anything foreign into their bodies. This is why they are so quick to buy into the anti-vaccine idea, because it plays on their fears.
Another thing to consider is that although most of us nowadays have governments and healthcare systems that are primarily helpful, many people I know did not always have this. Not long ago the only medical advice you could find on tobacco smoking was that it was beneficial to health. Many people alive today lived in (or heard firsthand accounts of) tyrannical oppressive governments that DID order or supervise the culling of certain members of the population. Thus, some of their beliefs are much more plausible than we might think, we just don't have the same context as they do.
So before we go labelling these people as damaging to society,†writing them off as crazy,†or stating that they should not be allowed to have children, we should look deeper into the problem. Sure, there are some doctors†who are actually doing society a disservice by fear-mongering, and sure, there are some parents or patients who actually know the damage they are causing, but the majority of them are good, legitimately scared people who aren't too keen on accepting another concept just yet. People prefer the devil they do know.
The solution, much like so many other problems in our society, does not lie in attacking or belittling the offenders, but in addressing the reason why they offend. If you go up to a mother who is too scared to let her daughter be vaccinated with an attitude like many of the comments I've heard about them, you will not convince her that she is wrong, you will just reinforce her belief that healthcare providers are do not understand her and are not on her side.
I am not anti-vax.....but have tried to see both sides of the issue because I see both sides at work and in our school/home life. To answer the above question - the reason the anti-vaxxers dont vaccinate is because they are MORE afraid of the side effects of the vaccine than they are of contracting the disease. Simple as that. And yes, they know it's due to herd immunity that they may be less likely to get the disease.
Why are they more afraid of the side effects than the disease? Because we live in America, for one thing, where we are benefitting from availability of vaccines. Because even people who are "trained" to look at research are confused by all of the information available on the internet. Who do you believe? There are Drs on both sides of the issues that construe the data in favor of their hypotheses. The anti-vax people I know love Dr Sherry Tenpenny, Dr Mercola, etc. What bugs me about these "Drs" is that they do not work in Peds, PICUs, NICUs, public health.....they get to sit in an office telling the scared public what to do, while never seeing with their own eyes what these diseases can do. We do. What a difference that makes! Correct me if I'm wrong about this - I'll happily take it back.
What do I do? Sadly, I've given up. I say "Here is this information, please read it. If you have any questions, write them down and I'll make sure you can talk to the Dr about it." I let the Dr handle it because he/she is the most educated on the topic. Why do I do this? Because I'm never going to convince them. Their minds have already been made up by Dr Google. Need examples? Well I have a million in my head from the nightmares I've had taking care of the patients of these families and I dont have the energy to keep fighting anymore. They dont want to listen, they are too scared, there is no discussion possible anymore for most of them. In the anti-vaxers mind, I, an RN, represent those bad Big Pharma Allopathic people who they were already against before they opened the hospital doors. Maybe this isnt your experience, but it sure has been mine. I live in a part of the country that is both highly educated and loudly antivax in many places.
And yes, the conspiracy theorists only get louder as they age! I am shocked to know really lovely, smart people who truly dont think we were on the moon, dont think Sandy Hook actually happened, 9/11 was an inside job....you name it. (Scratching my head)
And one more thing - pls dont assume all homeschoolers are anti-vax. Like everything, many are, some arent.
signed,
A homeschooling parent
Thank you. Since your responded to me, let me point out I said nothing about kids that are home schooled.
As far as the rest, I agree with you. Except the part about giving up. It is my duty, as a SN, to re-educate ad nauseum. I do, and I will.
But you and I both know, it wasn't to you who I was directing my question. My question is to the parents that don't.
As far as fear? Education is the great leveler when it comes to fear and ignorance, and these parents continuously bark up the wrong tree.
They can read for hours and hours regarding lavender oil and other pseudoscience (snagging this, BostonFNP) so it is not as if there is no effort to learn there. There is effort- to learn the WRONG STUFF.
I don't blame the parents. I do blame the doctors and nurses that perpetuate this ignorance willfully.
I have absolutely no desire to get into this debate; however, I wanted to make note that name calling on any side of a debate is not a good thing.
Whether you believe that vaccines are infallible, flawed or somewhere in between, when you make your argument calling the other side crazy, lunatic, dumb, stupid, retarded or uneducated, it makes you hateful.
I'm saying wrongly educated, fearful and ignorant. I'm not hateful.
If vaccines are not 100% effective, what is the use of getting them?
I genuinely don't understand your question. If a man and a woman wish to engage in sexual intercourse but do not wish to become pregnant, would it in your opinion make sense to not use any type of contraception simply because no birth control method is 100% effective?
Vaccines don't have to be 100% effective in order to be worthwhile from a public health standpoint.
If vaccines are not 100% effective, what is the use of getting them? 'Cause then you have to get a booster, then another booster when they run out. I just don't get the logic: You shouldn't not vaccinate your kids, because they might get sick or someone else sick, but if you vaccinate your kids, it is not always effective so they still may get sick or get someone else sick?!?!
You get the vaccine to reduce the chance of potentially catching a deadly disease. It's a bit like an insurance policy.
You get your insurance policy so that if you wreck your car, you are financially covered. Does it pay for 100% of the bill? No, not always. You get your vaccine so that when you are exposed that hopefully your immune system will remember the vaccine and will kick in and help you out. Does the immune system always get it right? No, but it's better to be safe than sorry.
That may be a poor analogy, but it's the best I can think of at the moment. Hopefully it helps.
I have posted this before on other vaccination threads, but do these people who are "afraid of putting anything foreign into their bodies", vaccinate their pets against rabies, parvovirus, etc?
Okay, I admit that I only read 2 pages out of the 12 or 13 on here, and I am not replying to any of them, I just wanted to give my view on the people I know who are against vaccinations.
I know a good number of people who are against vaccinations, some absolutely, and others unless absolutely necessary. Most of them do not think that anybody is out to kill their children, they are simply scared of what they don't know, or are inherently afraid of putting anything foreign into their bodies. This is why they are so quick to buy into the anti-vaccine idea, because it plays on their fears.
Another thing to consider is that although most of us nowadays have governments and healthcare systems that are primarily helpful, many people I know did not always have this. Not long ago the only medical advice you could find on tobacco smoking was that it was beneficial to health. Many people alive today lived in (or heard firsthand accounts of) tyrannical oppressive governments that DID order or supervise the culling of certain members of the population. Thus, some of their beliefs are much more plausible than we might think, we just don't have the same context as they do.
So before we go labelling these people as damaging to society,†writing them off as crazy,†or stating that they should not be allowed to have children, we should look deeper into the problem. Sure, there are some doctors†who are actually doing society a disservice by fear-mongering, and sure, there are some parents or patients who actually know the damage they are causing, but the majority of them are good, legitimately scared people who aren't too keen on accepting another concept just yet. People prefer the devil they do know.
The solution, much like so many other problems in our society, does not lie in attacking or belittling the offenders, but in addressing the reason why they offend. If you go up to a mother who is too scared to let her daughter be vaccinated with an attitude like many of the comments I've heard about them, you will not convince her that she is wrong, you will just reinforce her belief that healthcare providers are do not understand her and are not on her side.
Any attitude is directed toward nurses who should know better. I educate my parents just fine. Kids who are not vaccinated are put out of school. So happy I live in NY.
I'm sorry but the "big pharma" stuff is one thing that bugs us . . . big pharma doesn't make their money with vaccines. It would be better for big pharma to hide the vaccines in a bunker somewhere and make kids get sick and then hospitalize them . . . that would roll in the dough for sure.
Actually, according to the WHO presentation that 'Skeptical Raptor' (the name of the website you linked to) cited, vaccines are "becoming the engine for the pharmaceutical industry." Further, this WHO presentation noted that the value of the global vaccine market tripled from $5 billion in 2000 to nearly $24 billion in 2013.
I have received plenty of vaccines as an adult, and I think they are crucial to public health and safety. However, I will defend skeptics who are making an honest attempt to investigate a phenomenon they have observed (though I realize this does not describe all). That is the beginning of science. There are data on both sides of this issue; the difference is that it has become so unpopular to further investigate this matter that few dare touch it. We publicly shame and humiliate anyone who dares question--even questions based on their observations--the virtue of vaccines. And the fact that William Thompson, a senior scientist with the CDC, issued a statement that statistically significant data was omitted from a paper in Pediatrics linking the MMR to an increased risk for autism in African American males before 36 months of age should give us pause. I see 'anti-science' hurled at others as an insult all the time from people who do not fairly consider both sides of the argument and certainly don't think critically about this issue. It has become vogue to proclaim oneself 'pro-science' and dismiss outright anyone who questions the scientific community as anti-science. I fail to see how this fosters independent, critical thinking or is in the spirit of science. I commend the nurses here who have spoken out against the bandwagon.
I have posted this before on other vaccination threads, but do these people who are "afraid of putting anything foreign into their bodies", vaccinate their pets against rabies, parvovirus, etc?
Jenny McCarthy and Botox was the best example, IMO.
Thank you. Since your responded to me, let me point out I said nothing about kids that are home schooled.
You're right, Farawyn. You didnt - I didnt mean to "attack" you for this - I fully admit that I stink at this and only meant to answer the question you worded so well. I didnt actually mean to respond to you only. My intention was to clear up some misconceptions posted in many responses here about homeschoolers - but none were by you.
Thank you for pointing out that it is my duty, ad nauseum. But after 20+ years, and so much sadness....it's really hard to be that hospital nurse of those patients who resulted in really awful outcomes because the parents chose not to vaccinate/have a high risk birth at home/refuse meds, etc etc
I am tired of being blamed when these families come into the hospital. I'm tired of being seen as the "bad guy" by them, when I'm the one actually trying to save the child's life. This I cannot understand.
)
to cover this up. This vaccine tampering seems to be a part of some nefarious population control plot.
Parakeet
144 Posts
If vaccines are not 100% effective, what is the use of getting them? 'Cause then you have to get a booster, then another booster when they run out. I just don't get the logic: You shouldn't not vaccinate your kids, because they might get sick or someone else sick, but if you vaccinate your kids, it is not always effective so they still may get sick or get someone else sick?!?!