The education level of nurses: the general trends

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jun 28, 2012

It's a myth that safe care can only be obtained from an RN. Sorry CARNA but it's true. There are just as many "iffy" RNs as LPNs out there.

Remember you can forget just as many things as you've learned. Incompetence knows no bounds. Also remember that education only defines what you've learnt formally. Scope of practice only limits what you can do NOT what you can know.

minnymi · Jun 28, 2012

Considering that you've been on Allnurses for about 21 days and you've gone out of your way to start threads insulting LPN/LVN's I'm going to take THAT with a grain of salt. Did you teach punctuation and bullying when you were a teacher?
My previous degree was in Fashion Design with an emphasis on Apparel Manufacturing.

i didn't go out of my way to do anything. it was pretty simple to post a thread in response to all the comments by LPNs talking about how much harder they work or how much better trained they often are than RNs. of course, it was closed down by an LPN advocate. for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable for someone with a lesser education to rant about someone with a higher education (LPNs rant about RNS, CNAs rant about RNs, RN-ADNs rant about RN-BSNs) but if anyone says "get over it" to anyone with a lesser degree....oh no!! that's not acceptable.

anyway, that has nothing to do with this thread. i was just pointing out the obvious that the only person who would say LPNs are more skilled must've been an LPN.

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Jun 28, 2012

interestingly, i just had occasion to look up some stats on nursing education in the us. it gave the %age of students of different ages in lpn, diploma, associate, bachelors, masters, and doctoral programs over the last 20 or so years, and the number of programs in each level. interesting reading.

national league for nursing - about the nln

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jun 28, 2012

i didn't go out of my way to do anything. it was pretty simple to post a thread in response to all the comments by LPNs talking about how much harder they work or how much better trained they often are than RNs. of course, it was closed down by an LPN advocate. for some reason, it's perfectly acceptable for someone with a lesser education to rant about someone with a higher education (LPNs rant about RNS, CNAs rant about RNs, RN-ADNs rant about RN-BSNs) but if anyone says "get over it" to anyone with a lesser degree....oh no!! that's not acceptable.
anyway, that has nothing to do with this thread. i was just pointing out the obvious that the only person who would say LPNs are more skilled must've been an LPN.

It was shut down because it was controversial and rude. You seemed to be fixated on the issue more than any LPN I've known. Why? You went onto a section of AN where the LPN's were and told us to get over ourselves and you somehow don't realize WHY? it's not acceptable.

Also why does a person who has a "superior" nursing degree as well as one in education have such a vendetta against capital letters?

Fiona59 · Jun 28, 2012

True, I was wondering why an educator has no concept of capitalization and such strange sentence formation.

minnymi · Jun 28, 2012

i'm quite familiar with the elementary schooler mentality so it doesn't get me riled up. not much does.

:yeah:

carry on.

Salisburysteak, BSN, RN · Jun 28, 2012

Interesting thread...

First off no one is better because they have a higher degree than anyone. Each Nursing program is different, and how the info is taught. I am an LPN and I know LPN school where I went was pretty tough. Granted it was considered a one year program, but I had to do pre-requisite classes before I was accepted into the program and those classes took me a year. I had to apply to my program and wait for the letter in the mail saying if I was accepted or not. I waited six months to find out.

The state I live in has a broad scope of practice for LPN's. While in the program our class was in the hospital doing clinicals. We did a Med-Surg I & II, Psych, OB/GYN, Peds, and Nursing Leadership rotations. We had to write papers, do case studies(group and individual), pass ATI exams and pass a dosage calculation test the start of each new quarter. At the time the Tech College I went to had 10 week quarters. The Tech college now has the semester system.

We also had to think critically. we wrote care plans with Nursing Diagnoses and had to understand why we chose those diagnoses, we also had to know why the patient/client was taking their meds and the side effects of the meds and what to watch out for.

I know that LPN's are more "technical", but that does not mean we are not educated or know what we are doing. During my time in Nursing school, we had clinicals with BSN students and they were learning more about paperwork and management skills. I never questioned their ability to do certain skills; we helped each other out when we were on the floor together. Sometimes we even discussed possible nursing diagnoses together!

I wish this whole RN-LPn feud would end. We as nurses should work together and use our combined knowledge to get the job done.

That is my :twocents:

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jun 29, 2012

i'm quite familiar with the elementary schooler mentality so it doesn't get me riled up. not much does.
carry on.

You have no insight into your own behavior however. I would review things you have said in the past and analyze why you feel the need to make little jabs. Thats classic elementary school behavior.

It's funny I've never had the LVN vs RN problem in my real/work life. Only online.

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jun 29, 2012

true, i was wondering why an educator has no concept of capitalization and such strange sentence formation.

actually this below is part of the tos on an though its hard to tell sometimes.

desiring to maintain professionalism, text speak (also known as chatspeak, txtspk, texting language or txt talk) is discouraged. along with using proper english spelling and punctuation, this shows respect for the owner, other bulletin board members, guests, and makes it easier to read your message.

realnursealso/LPN, LPN · Jun 29, 2012

did you enter the nursing profession with a degree in other fields? what was your last degree in? i think many people who enter nursing with a second degree; nursing is one of the most popular careers for people who are considering a second career.
digressing, has anyone noticed how the boundary line between what an rpn can do and what an rn is allowed to do is becoming "blurred". just few weeks ago, i found out that in college rpns are taught more skills than rns. that surprises me.

here you go, read it and weep:

jun 28 by thecommuter

licensed practical nurses (lpns) play a vital role in the delivery of healthcare in the united states and other countries. however, numerous people continue to perpetuate some unpleasant falsehoods regarding lpns. this is the second article of a four-part essay that will expose the biggest myths and misconceptions that plague today's lpn workforce.

licensed practical nurses (lpns) have impacted healthcare in an integral manner in various countries for many years. in fact, the role of the lpn has existed for several generations. however, lpns are still largely misunderstood in the sphere of nursing, and this is evidenced by the inaccurate statements that other nurses and members of the public make on a regular basis.

numerous individuals have contributed to the uncontrolled spread of inaccurate information about lpns. the most pitiful fact is that some of these rumor-spreaders have never even worked one day in the nursing profession. a handful of the most persistent myths regarding lpns were discussed in part one of this four-part essay. a few more pesky myths are listed below.

myth number four: lpns cannot supervise rns.

i have personally worked in settings where the unit manager, assistant director of nursing, or staffing director is an lpn. guess what? this practice is perfectly legal. lpns are legally allowed to supervise registered nurses (rns) in an administrative capacity. however, lpns are not permitted to supervise rns in a clinical capacity.

myth number five: lpns cannot engage in critical thinking.

all nurses are capable of critical thinking and sound judgment, and this includes lpns and rns. some lpns cannot critically think, and some can. some rns cannot critically think, and some can. therefore, you cannot simply stereotype an entire group of nurses and say "there's a difference in their thinking," without having met all nurses within that rank.

almost anyone in society can be taught to critically think. critical thinking applies not only to nursing, but to every single aspect of life. everyone must utilize critical thinking if he or she wants to make it through life. when i was a factory worker, i had to use critical thinking and proper judgment in order to stay alive because i worked atop a high-speed three-story paper machine that reached temperatures of 450 degrees. parents must employ critical thinking, parental skills, and good judgment when raising children.

myth number six: lpns cannot work in hospitals.

hospital employment is highly dependent on location. i live in the second most populous state in the union, and lpns/lvns are used heavily in the small-town hospitals and rural critical access hospitals around here. hospital employment is on the decline for lpns in major cities during this sluggish economic situation, because facilities are taking advantage of the surplus of newly graduated bsn-educated rns who are so desperate for employment that they'll work for virtually any wage in many metropolitan areas. for example, my current workplace was paying $23 hourly to a brand-new rn with a bsn degree last year. however, the lpn with 24 years of experience was earning $25 per hour.

the goal of this four-part essay is to debunk and/or challenge common misconceptions about lpns. please correct the next person who makes ignorant statements about lpns. we can all assume some responsibility for erasing the myths, falsehoods, and insults about the lpn's role in nursing.

also please educate yourself further:

https://allnurses.com/lpn-lvn-corner/lpns-myths-misconceptions-746909.html

https://allnurses.com/lpn-lvn-corner/lpn-lifes-perfect-747491.html

https://allnurses.com/lpn-lvn-nursing/educational-pathways-lead-743076.html

please read all of these articles.

minnymi · Jun 29, 2012

Actually this below is part of the TOS on AN though its hard to tell sometimes.

you're the one who is obsessed with the RN/LPN issue..obviously!

thanks for highlighting "along with proper english spelling and punctuation."

capitalization is not in the spelling OR punctuation category.

do you honestly think i don't know that sentences begin with capital letters? get a life.

once again, elementary mentality. i wonder how some people have made it as far as they have. i guess even small feats should be applauded for some. :yeah:

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Jun 29, 2012

thanks for highlighting "along with proper english spelling and punctuation."
capitalization is not in the spelling OR punctuation category.

Actually is can be considered to be either, both or neither depending on which resource you consult. I have no doubt that you know the correct way to do things but purposefully chose not to and that makes it disrespectful to yourself and everyone else who reads your posts.